Who is right? Israel of Palestine?

[Shadowstar1922]

This is obviously a heated debate in all aspects of the world almost every country taking a side, either Palestine or Israel. And, I'm sure almost everyone has their opinions, but not most know the modern histories of the Jewish State of Israel, and the Palestinian Administration. Very few know what happened during the Cold War, and not even many know what actually happens now.

But, because I do not want to be biast in this case, because both sides are right to a degree, I will give each side their "right justifications". Some are technical, some are edgy, and others are plain obvious.

Lets start with Palestine.:

Palestinian Culture: the Palestinian people are a sub-culture formed after the Syrian Kingdom was broken up by invaders.Upon the land coming under Ottoman Rule and Mamlukian Rule, the Palestinian culture over time formed to have religious sites in the area and lived in the area long enough to have claim to the land. The land has been Muslim, or Palestinian for 500-800 years.
Illegal Conquest by Israel The Jewish Agency and the Jewish State of Israel, in every conflict with foreign Arab States, have illegally violated the UN 2-State Plan by occupying more territory than the Jewish State was granted. With this violation, Israel has to return the land after all conflicts. Since Israel is violating the 2-State Plan, starting in 1948, the Palestinian Administration didn't have to follow the accommodations with the plan, since Israel had clearly violated the pact. Israel has over time used Palestine ignoring the plan to continue to discriminate against Palestinians, when Israel itself, caused the violations and was the first to violate the plan.
Israeli Extermination against the Palestinian people(Genocide) Since 1945, the Jewish State of Israel is responsible for the deaths of about 1,500,000 million Palestinians. Israel has, over time and time, uses chemical weapons against the Palestinian people, done air strike and/or military artillery strikes in cities to completely flatten the territory to then rebuild it for Jewish people only. Majority of the killing was NOT during any wars with the foreign Arab states. Israel is slowly taking over the Palestinian territory granted to them by the United Nations and slowly killing all of them. Israel has also forced about 3-6 million Palestinians out of their homelands and out the borders, usually into the deserts to die.
Denied the Right to Declare a State Regardless if Palestine signed and/or agreed to the UN Resolution pact, The Palestnians were never given the right to declare a state for their own, like the Jewish people did. Shortly after the war in 1948-1949, Egypt has occupied several southern territories that canceled the Palestinians organizing and forming their Arab State. Now, the United States blocks the Palestnians form officially declaring an Arab State with protecting Israel politically so Israel may wage illegal war against Palestnine, and use chemical weapons and threaten nuclear strikes.
Palestinian Neglect and Abuse by "Arab Comrades"Shockingly, during the time periods of Palestinians fleeing the land to nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the people were usually at times attacked or kicked out of the land, or forced to be in refugee camps, denying the Palestinians a right to live in their country. No where to go, most Palestinians now, and then, faced hard times by discrimination from both sides.

(TOPIC NOT DONE, IGNORE IT FOR NOW!)

Israel:

Jewish/Israeli Ancient Kingdoms and Claim to Land As we all know, the Jewish people have successfully made 3 kingdoms in the past in the area of what is now Israel, all kingdoms maintaining their culture in the area and setting up religious sites. Just like Islam and Christianity, the Jewish people have their right to the land too.

Right to Declare a State According to the UN 2-state Plan, or UN Resolution 181 that broke the British Mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab State, the Jewish people were obviously given the right to declare a state, but the land was somewhat equally divided. It's clearly not now.

Jewish Nationalism With living in the area of Palestine, the Jewish people have felt the need for a nation, or nationalism, which does give them some real justification to creating a state.


Problems with some of the Palestinian rights:

The Illegal Conquest of Palestine can be countered with Palestine should have called in the United Nations when Israel had done it's illegal conquest over it's territory. Though, some counter this claim by saying no one really cared about Palestine and argue that the UN Resolution 181 didn't make it very clear as it should have been with giving Palestine the right to declare a state. Either side is technically right.


Problems with some Israeli rights:


Arguing against the "Jewish/Israeli Ancient Kingdoms and Claim to Land", just because the Jews have a strong culture there, or actually, DID have a strong culture there, doesn't mean they get liberated in an area where it has been Muslim for 800-1,000 years, or different cultures. Reviving old kingdoms seems redundant. Saying you want the liberation of the Jewish people and wanting them to have that land because they have SOME claim over it, means you'd love to give Mexico back California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Oaklahoma and southern Washington and Idaho back to Mexico, to restore the Mexican Empire. Or, you'd like to see Colombia be given back it's territory in the Amazon Forest that Brazil took, and restore Bolivia's lost territories that were taken by Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, and Peru. This argument can go on.

Arguing against the "Jewish Nationalism" the Jewish people have obviously long lost the right to the land. The land has been Muslim for almost 1,000 years and the Palestinians have had their culture for 500-800 years.

Arguing against the "Right to Declare a State". It was obviously foolish to have Western powers restore a 1,000+ year old kingdom in an area that was not even the same culture or religion as those people. And, the UN Resolution 181 was bias towards Israel, basing off extremely small patches of Jewish people in Palestine that almost all of these areas weren't even close to 50% Jewish, to use that basis in making a state, giving Israel way too much land.

[Dr Frook]

both are wrong and both are right

what happened in the beginning was stupid western influence... but it happened, it was made official, and israel was created. This was wrong, but cannot be reversed.

what happened later with the attempted invasion of israel was wrong and in the end cost palestine huge areas of land, independence and caused suffering to their own people. Had this not happened, Israel would have remained a small corner of land and palestine would not be in the crap situation it finds itself in now.

To the victor go the spoils, and palestine was most certainly not the victor through stupid western behaviour to begin and then stupid strategic thinking of its own leaders later on.

I feel sorry for the Palestinians and I dont see any way out of the crap. War, bombings, suicide attacks whatever will only worsen their condition, not fix it.

[Shadowstar1922]

both are wrong and both are right

what happened in the beginning was stupid western influence... but it happened, it was made official, and israel was created. This was wrong, but cannot be reversed.

what happened later with the attempted invasion of israel was wrong and in the end cost palestine huge areas of land, independence and caused suffering to their own people. Had this not happened, Israel would have remained a small corner of land and palestine would not be in the crap situation it finds itself in now.

To the victor go the spoils, and palestine was most certainly not the victor through stupid western behaviour to begin and then stupid strategic thinking of its own leaders later on.

I feel sorry for the Palestinians and I dont see any way out of the crap. War, bombings, suicide attacks whatever will only worsen their condition, not fix it.

I'm not done with the topic, I accidentally hit submit when I wanted to hit preview xD

[Dr Frook]

both are wrong and both are right

what happened in the beginning was stupid western influence... but it happened, it was made official, and israel was created. This was wrong, but cannot be reversed.

what happened later with the attempted invasion of israel was wrong and in the end cost palestine huge areas of land, independence and caused suffering to their own people. Had this not happened, Israel would have remained a small corner of land and palestine would not be in the crap situation it finds itself in now.

To the victor go the spoils, and palestine was most certainly not the victor through stupid western behaviour to begin and then stupid strategic thinking of its own leaders later on.

I feel sorry for the Palestinians and I dont see any way out of the crap. War, bombings, suicide attacks whatever will only worsen their condition, not fix it.

I'm not done with the topic, I accidentally hit submit when I wanted to hit preview xD

oh...

[Shadowstar1922]

both are wrong and both are right

what happened in the beginning was stupid western influence... but it happened, it was made official, and israel was created. This was wrong, but cannot be reversed.

what happened later with the attempted invasion of israel was wrong and in the end cost palestine huge areas of land, independence and caused suffering to their own people. Had this not happened, Israel would have remained a small corner of land and palestine would not be in the crap situation it finds itself in now.

To the victor go the spoils, and palestine was most certainly not the victor through stupid western behaviour to begin and then stupid strategic thinking of its own leaders later on.

I feel sorry for the Palestinians and I dont see any way out of the crap. War, bombings, suicide attacks whatever will only worsen their condition, not fix it.

I'm not done with the topic, I accidentally hit submit when I wanted to hit preview xD

oh...

It's done now.

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

What if, there was not a single truth. Not a single answer, but a multiple truth, where all arms that branch out could be equally correct. A weightless world is one that does not depend on support, silence is the absence of sound. So what if we instead of not focusing on their plight, focused on the course ahead of us. What is written in sand is not permanent.

I like to relate Politics to Quantum Mechanics, in that the simple act of observation changes the course.

Existence is not chosen, it is given.

[Dr Frook]

I read through your completed review. Really well done and well thought out. tis a very complicated issue that becomes harder to resolve as the years go by.

This is obviously a heated debate in all aspects of the world almost every country taking a side, either Palestine or Israel. And, I'm sure almost everyone has their opinions, but not most know the modern histories of the Jewish State of Israel, and the Palestinian Administration. Very few know what happened during the Cold War, and not even many know what actually happens now.

But, because I do not want to be biast in this case, because both sides are right to a degree, I will give each side their "right justifications". Some are technical, some are edgy, and others are plain obvious.

Lets start with Palestine.:

Palestinian Culture: the Palestinian people are a sub-culture formed after the Syrian Kingdom was broken up by invaders.Upon the land coming under Ottoman Rule and Mamlukian Rule, the Palestinian culture over time formed to have religious sites in the area and lived in the area long enough to have claim to the land. The land has been Muslim, or Palestinian for 500-800 years.
Illegal Conquest by Israel The Jewish Agency and the Jewish State of Israel, in every conflict with foreign Arab States, have illegally violated the UN 2-State Plan by occupying more territory than the Jewish State was granted. With this violation, Israel has to return the land after all conflicts. Since Israel is violating the 2-State Plan, starting in 1948, the Palestinian Administration didn't have to follow the accommodations with the plan, since Israel had clearly violated the pact. Israel has over time used Palestine ignoring the plan to continue to discriminate against Palestinians, when Israel itself, caused the violations and was the first to violate the plan.
Israeli Extermination against the Palestinian people(Genocide) Since 1945, the Jewish State of Israel is responsible for the deaths of about 1,500,000 million Palestinians. Israel has, over time and time, uses chemical weapons against the Palestinian people, done air strike and/or military artillery strikes in cities to completely flatten the territory to then rebuild it for Jewish people only. Majority of the killing was NOT during any wars with the foreign Arab states. Israel is slowly taking over the Palestinian territory granted to them by the United Nations and slowly killing all of them. Israel has also forced about 3-6 million Palestinians out of their homelands and out the borders, usually into the deserts to die.
Denied the Right to Declare a State Regardless if Palestine signed and/or agreed to the UN Resolution pact, The Palestnians were never given the right to declare a state for their own, like the Jewish people did. Shortly after the war in 1948-1949, Egypt has occupied several southern territories that canceled the Palestinians organizing and forming their Arab State. Now, the United States blocks the Palestnians form officially declaring an Arab State with protecting Israel politically so Israel may wage illegal war against Palestnine, and use chemical weapons and threaten nuclear strikes.
Palestinian Neglect and Abuse by "Arab Comrades"Shockingly, during the time periods of Palestinians fleeing the land to nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the people were usually at times attacked or kicked out of the land, or forced to be in refugee camps, denying the Palestinians a right to live in their country. No where to go, most Palestinians now, and then, faced hard times by discrimination from both sides.

(TOPIC NOT DONE, IGNORE IT FOR NOW!)

Israel:

Jewish/Israeli Ancient Kingdoms and Claim to Land As we all know, the Jewish people have successfully made 3 kingdoms in the past in the area of what is now Israel, all kingdoms maintaining their culture in the area and setting up religious sites. Just like Islam and Christianity, the Jewish people have their right to the land too.

Right to Declare a State According to the UN 2-state Plan, or UN Resolution 181 that broke the British Mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab State, the Jewish people were obviously given the right to declare a state, but the land was somewhat equally divided. It's clearly not now.

Jewish Nationalism With living in the area of Palestine, the Jewish people have felt the need for a nation, or nationalism, which does give them some real justification to creating a state.


Problems with some of the Palestinian rights:

The Illegal Conquest of Palestine can be countered with Palestine should have called in the United Nations when Israel had done it's illegal conquest over it's territory. Though, some counter this claim by saying no one really cared about Palestine and argue that the UN Resolution 181 didn't make it very clear as it should have been with giving Palestine the right to declare a state. Either side is technically right.


Problems with some Israeli rights:


Arguing against the "Jewish/Israeli Ancient Kingdoms and Claim to Land", just because the Jews have a strong culture there, or actually, DID have a strong culture there, doesn't mean they get liberated in an area where it has been Muslim for 800-1,000 years, or different cultures. Reviving old kingdoms seems redundant. Saying you want the liberation of the Jewish people and wanting them to have that land because they have SOME claim over it, means you'd love to give Mexico back California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Oaklahoma and southern Washington and Idaho back to Mexico, to restore the Mexican Empire. Or, you'd like to see Colombia be given back it's territory in the Amazon Forest that Brazil took, and restore Bolivia's lost territories that were taken by Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, and Peru. This argument can go on.

Arguing against the "Jewish Nationalism" the Jewish people have obviously long lost the right to the land. The land has been Muslim for almost 1,000 years and the Palestinians have had their culture for 500-800 years.

Arguing against the "Right to Declare a State". It was obviously foolish to have Western powers restore a 1,000+ year old kingdom in an area that was not even the same culture or religion as those people. And, the UN Resolution 181 was bias towards Israel, basing off extremely small patches of Jewish people in Palestine that almost all of these areas weren't even close to 50% Jewish, to use that basis in making a state, giving Israel way too much land.

[Shadowstar1922]

Thanks Frook, for the comment. I've been studying the politics in the Middle East for 2 years now. Very complex issue with many solutions, but I think that Muammar Al Quadaffi's solution, creating a Union state and expelling the huge weapons Israel has and equaling the say of both cultures, and encouraging the young to accept one another, ending the old generation's hatred towards another.