Situation in the middle east...

[Kommissar_KvC]

all in all the israelis are at fault here

the area they live in belongs historically to palestine, israel only exists because british stole palestinian land and made israel in 1948 with no regard to that the fact that the region had been solidly islamic for the best part of 1000 years before the state of israel was founded
any good honest person would be offended by foreigners dumping foreigners on their land, god knows serbia was pissed when usa took kosovo and handed it to the albanians, native americans were pissed when britain dumped their settlers on their land, so why is palestine the bad guy for wanting their land back

[Dr Frook]

all in all the israelis are at fault here

the area they live in belongs historically to palestine, israel only exists because british stole palestinian land and made israel in 1948 with no regard to that the fact that the region had been solidly islamic for the best part of 1000 years before the state of israel was founded
any good honest person would be offended by foreigners dumping foreigners on their land, god knows serbia was pissed when usa took kosovo and handed it to the albanians, native americans were pissed when britain dumped their settlers on their land, so why is palestine the bad guy for wanting their land back

agreed.

[Shadowstar1922]

all in all the israelis are at fault here

the area they live in belongs historically to palestine, israel only exists because british stole palestinian land and made israel in 1948 with no regard to that the fact that the region had been solidly islamic for the best part of 1000 years before the state of israel was founded
any good honest person would be offended by foreigners dumping foreigners on their land, god knows serbia was pissed when usa took kosovo and handed it to the albanians, native americans were pissed when britain dumped their settlers on their land, so why is palestine the bad guy for wanting their land back

The Jewish Agency actually worked quite well with the Arabs in the land. Only when Britian started enforcing laws that underminded Arabs, were they pissed.

Though, I can see what you mean, and it's an excellent point. But, the Arabs weren't completely pissed in the beginning.

[Kommissar_KvC]

The Jewish Agency actually worked quite well with the Arabs in the land. Only when Britian started enforcing laws that underminded Arabs, were they pissed.

Though, I can see what you mean, and it's an excellent point. But, the Arabs weren't completely pissed in the beginning.

right
during the 600+ years that the region was under the Ottoman empire, it was dominantly islamic but it had a tolerated population of jews and christians
its possible that if the arabs had been left to look after things themselves, the tolerance might have continued, but with typical british arrogance, as you said they undermined the arabs, its technically the british that began the israeli/palestine aggression

but since palestine cant reasonably send forces over to the UK to attack the british without getting the whole world mad at them, they simply take out their anger on the nearest target, israel

[ObsidianTheGod]

the tolerance might have continued, but with typical british arrogance, as you said they undermined the arabs, its technically the british that began the israeli/palestine aggression

1) You cannot single out "British" as a whole. For example; I'm British, did I create our laws? No. So that's wrong completely.
2) Whether or not "British" enforce laws, or do whatever, we didn't ask them both to feud, did we? Nope.

It's about common sense, using ones wit.
You wrongly insulted the British, but I've the common sense not to hate, discriminate, or insult you.
It's that simple really.
...Chow.


~Edit~
Oh, and what's stopping either side, from being the bigger group, and just saying 'Look, there's no point arguing, fighting, and hating. It will only cause war, and there's no need for it. It would be simpler to just move on'.
But they can't do that, can they? Stubbornness.

[dankness75]

I don't see its Britians fault. Our country holds a lot of countries and it owns it. When we own it, it is ours and done done. No excuses and no complaints. Britian, I am sure just didn't dumped the Palestine people. They gave them a place to stay and that is how we used it. No one would like it if they owned something and it was taken away from them or somebody complained about it. Britian didn't want to war. Why, we are not even in it. They need to stop so it's not good assuming things which are not true.

[Shadow00]

So me being here with my typical beliefs and all...
It's of no matter if Israel once belonged to that country or whatever.
It plays no role at all.
In wars, lands change owners. The British empire being a super force at the time (pretty much as 'Merica today), could do whatever they wanted.
Can you wrong them for doing the best for THEIR country?
Nope. Can you hate them for that? Sure.
But as long as your country is like mine (Greece), don't expect to be treated evenly.
Higher powers of the era will manipulate your country, nothing you can do about it.
Higher powers of this era are the banks. Been trying to tell people here how the banks pretty much manipulate every nation no matter what it's leader, but...
Well, this era is coming to an end. War will break out in the middle east most likely, and If it goes as bad as I think, it will pretty much signify the beginning of the next era.

Who will rule the next era?
Who knows. It's 2012, so I bet a nickel on aliens.
Or spiderman.

[Shadowstar1922]

the tolerance might have continued, but with typical british arrogance, as you said they undermined the arabs, its technically the british that began the israeli/palestine aggression

1) You cannot single out "British" as a whole. For example; I'm British, did I create our laws? No. So that's wrong completely.
2) Whether or not "British" enforce laws, or do whatever, we didn't ask them both to feud, did we? Nope.

It's about common sense, using ones wit.
You wrongly insulted the British, but I've the common sense not to hate, discriminate, or insult you.
It's that simple really.
...Chow.


~Edit~
Oh, and what's stopping either side, from being the bigger group, and just saying 'Look, there's no point arguing, fighting, and hating. It will only cause war, and there's no need for it. It would be simpler to just move on'.
But they can't do that, can they? Stubbornness.

He wasn't using the word British, as talking to every single person in the world who is British, but as a name to call Great Britain. He wasn't being racist, or insulting your people. He simply pointed out something Great Britain had done, which really did cause all the wars with Israel and other countries.

In these type of debates, we usually use the cultural name of the country, or abbreviations to reference the country. If you see in earlier debates, some people might say the Israelis did this, or the Chinese meant to do this. It's simply a different name. Don't get too offended.


And, weather you like it or not, the British Government(happy I made it more specific?) actually did cause the conflicts with Israel and and the Arabs. They dumped Jewish people in a land where it's been Islam dominated, and said, you can have this land. Don't worry about the other countries. Nations like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria, had basic claims to the land, and when they found the opportunity to strike, they took it. But, soon into the conflicts, they all just wanted to free Palestine and let Palestine become it's rightfully deserved nation. Why do you think Iran hates Israel so much? Because they shouldn't be in that land. Same with other countries, like Egpyt, who aren't scared to show their hatred. They don't like how the British had basically forced Muslims to give up their land for a culture they frankly didn't even care about.

The Islams are NOT the bad people in this. Israel, Britain, and the United Nations are. You can't just dump people on a land that has been a completely different culture for hundreds of years. Yes, you can do that if you have power, but is it right? No. Will it cause fights? You bet your life it will.

It's very logical, and right to say that Great Britain most certainty did cause the conflicts. Did they try to minimize it? Yes when the Labour party banned all Jewish immigration to Israel, but did that solve the idiotic policies against the Arabs in the land? No it didn't.

Now, I'm not saying Great Britain is a completely evil country for this, since they've been doing it for almost their whole existence as an Empire, and almost every single Empire in the world has done this too. Is is okay to call them somewhat bad government, or even people that they did this, and it is common. So, no the British aren't completely bad people, they've just made bad mistakes. Mistakes that they thought were actually doing something good.(more of the government, since it was a monarchy. Not so much of the people.)

[Shadow00]

the tolerance might have continued, but with typical british arrogance, as you said they undermined the arabs, its technically the british that began the israeli/palestine aggression

1) You cannot single out "British" as a whole. For example; I'm British, did I create our laws? No. So that's wrong completely.
2) Whether or not "British" enforce laws, or do whatever, we didn't ask them both to feud, did we? Nope.

It's about common sense, using ones wit.
You wrongly insulted the British, but I've the common sense not to hate, discriminate, or insult you.
It's that simple really.
...Chow.


~Edit~
Oh, and what's stopping either side, from being the bigger group, and just saying 'Look, there's no point arguing, fighting, and hating. It will only cause war, and there's no need for it. It would be simpler to just move on'.
But they can't do that, can they? Stubbornness.

He wasn't using the word British, as talking to every single person in the world who is British, but as a name to call Great Britain. He wasn't being racist, or insulting your people. He simply pointed out something Great Britain had done, which really did cause all the wars with Israel and other countries.

In these type of debates, we usually use the cultural name of the country, or abbreviations to reference the country. If you see in earlier debates, some people might say the Israelis did this, or the Chinese meant to do this. It's simply a different name. Don't get too offended.


And, weather you like it or not, the British Government(happy I made it more specific?) actually did cause the conflicts with Israel and and the Arabs. They dumped Jewish people in a land where it's been Islam dominated, and said, you can have this land. Don't worry about the other countries. Nations like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria, had basic claims to the land, and when they found the opportunity to strike, they took it. But, soon into the conflicts, they all just wanted to free Palestine and let Palestine become it's rightfully deserved nation. Why do you think Iran hates Israel so much? Because they shouldn't be in that land. Same with other countries, like Egpyt, who aren't scared to show their hatred. They don't like how the British had basically forced Muslims to give up their land for a culture they frankly didn't even care about.

The Islams are NOT the bad people in this. Israel, Britain, and the United Nations are. You can't just dump people on a land that has been a completely different culture for hundreds of years. Yes, you can do that if you have power, but is it right? No. Will it cause fights? You bet your life it will.

It's very logical, and right to say that Great Britain most certainty did cause the conflicts. Did they try to minimize it? Yes when the Labour party banned all Jewish immigration to Israel, but did that solve the idiotic policies against the Arabs in the land? No it didn't.

Now, I'm not saying Great Britain is a completely evil country for this, since they've been doing it for almost their whole existence as an Empire, and almost every single Empire in the world has done this too. Is is okay to call them somewhat bad government, or even people that they did this, and it is common. So, no the British aren't completely bad people, they've just made bad mistakes. Mistakes that they thought were actually doing something good.(more of the government, since it was a monarchy. Not so much of the people.)

And again, nobody can blame the British government for doing that. Humanitarian and/or sympathy don't apply to world/changing decisions.

You have power great enough to do what you want? Nobody has the ability to stop you.
That's that. There's probably some reason why Jews got that land, anyways.
Take the US for example. It possibly has the world's most hated government worldwide, but who is going to disagree with it since (so far) it is one of this world's greatest powers?

Only thing for certain is, after US loses its power, everyone will feast on it like crows.
But then again, nobody knows how the world will be at that time.

I do not disagree that the UK has made quite a lot right-winged decisions, but it's quite clear we aren't in the 60s and world peace is dead.
So don't expect it to be any more friendly to other countries than it has to be..

[Dr Frook]

it's all one big huge screw up. Westerners taking what was not theres has resulted in numerous wars in the middle east and most likely millions of deaths.

there is no going back with israel, but resolving the problem is near impossible.