The God Problem.

[Munter]

The point in this topic was to show the potential irrationality of the belief in a typical Christian God. (I.E - A God that is all good, all knowing and all powerful) Although we cannot prove the existence of things that we cannot measure, see etc, we can show that it is logically impossible for a God of this type to exist. At least by human standards of logic. But then, if God works on a different logic, than can we call him 'good' by our standards?

This isn't a debate as to whether God exists at all or not, just that a God of this definition is a difficult belief to rationally hold.

And woof, I suppose if you believe that someone is wrong in holding a belief you may see it as your duty to correct their error, and they yours, so we have measured rigorous debate. If someone is found out to be wrong, then the person who proved them wrong has done them a great service, by ridding them of a false belief.

But have they done them a great service? What if, because that belief is taken away, a person lives forever in fear, anger, depression, anxiety, etc. etc.? Then again, that's just a what if. But still, you get my meaning. I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but I'd like it if you wouldn't tell me that I'm wrong.

Would you not rather live your life knowing the truth, rather than believing a happy lie?
Now, I'm not saying what what you believe is a lie, I'm just trying to point out that pursuit of truth should be more important than who gets sad that what they believed is wrong.
To use an example, If someone took great comfort in the fact that although their life is awful, when they die they'll get to live with Elvis, you'd want to tell them to forget the belief in an afterlife with Elvis in a hope that they can try and improve their life.

All I am saying, and I have provided a case for it, is that the idea of an all knowing, all powerful, all good God doesn't seem to fit with what we observe in the world. That's not to say that God doesn't exist in some form, just that it looks pretty unlikely that he can in the form previously mentioned.

One should always question ones own views, and constantly be self critical. I genuinely feel it is one of the most important things in life.

[woofwoof]

The point in this topic was to show the potential irrationality of the belief in a typical Christian God. (I.E - A God that is all good, all knowing and all powerful) Although we cannot prove the existence of things that we cannot measure, see etc, we can show that it is logically impossible for a God of this type to exist. At least by human standards of logic. But then, if God works on a different logic, than can we call him 'good' by our standards?

This isn't a debate as to whether God exists at all or not, just that a God of this definition is a difficult belief to rationally hold.

And woof, I suppose if you believe that someone is wrong in holding a belief you may see it as your duty to correct their error, and they yours, so we have measured rigorous debate. If someone is found out to be wrong, then the person who proved them wrong has done them a great service, by ridding them of a false belief.

But have they done them a great service? What if, because that belief is taken away, a person lives forever in fear, anger, depression, anxiety, etc. etc.? Then again, that's just a what if. But still, you get my meaning. I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but I'd like it if you wouldn't tell me that I'm wrong.

Would you not rather live your life knowing the truth, rather than believing a happy lie?
Now, I'm not saying what what you believe is a lie, I'm just trying to point out that pursuit of truth should be more important than who gets sad that what they believed is wrong.
To use an example, If someone took great comfort in the fact that although their life is awful, when they die they'll get to live with Elvis, you'd want to tell them to forget the belief in an afterlife with Elvis in a hope that they can try and improve their life.

All I am saying, and I have provided a case for it, is that the idea of an all knowing, all powerful, all good God doesn't seem to fit with what we observe in the world. That's not to say that God doesn't exist in some form, just that it looks pretty unlikely that he can in the form previously mentioned.

One should always question ones own views, and constantly be self critical. I genuinely feel it is one of the most important things in life.

Interesting point. And, speaking of thinking a life is awful, I will say that I probably shouldn't be here, because all I do is mess up and hurt others. I'm basically a burden. Many have tried to change this belief, but it's one that's hard to change. However, when it comes to belief in God, I believe greatly, though I admit I'm not one of His best children, and probably never will be. But I still believe, no matter what others say. And I am very, very stubborn I suppose. And though it might be not logical or irrational or unthinkable, I believe in the God previously mentioned; all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean its not real. Like unicorns. Or aliens. Okay, now I'm just being silly, but really. I understand that many will try to change this belief of mine, and many of my beliefs, but, as I said, I'm stubborn, and I wouldn't change myself for the world... well... I don't know. I guess it just depends on what happens to me.

[mmm]

I think that everyone has the right to believe whatever they believe, and not be constantly proselytized by those who are convinced that they are wrong. After all, ignorance is bliss.

[Munter]

Bit of a wide statement there.

You wouldn't want people believing if they blow themselves up in a public place they'll go to heaven.

The thing is, even with a belief like that we can't actually prove whether it's true or not, for all we know (without blind belief) you just need to die in a chicken suit to get into heaven.

So to say you think people should be allowed to hold any kind of belief lets in alot of beliefs that are potentially harmful to society and people in general.

The way I see it, when it comes to how one lives ones life, we should find the answers from our experience of life, not on a belief of what happens after we die. And I would urge everyone to do the same. Unfounded beliefs, although can be harmless to hold, should not interfere with how you live your life.

Anyways, this detracts from the original topic of the post.

[mmm]

Bit of a wide statement there.

You wouldn't want people believing if they blow themselves up in a public place they'll go to heaven.

The thing is, even with a belief like that we can't actually prove whether it's true or not, for all we know (without blind belief) you just need to die in a chicken suit to get into heaven.

So to say you think people should be allowed to hold any kind of belief lets in alot of beliefs that are potentially harmful to society and people in general.

The way I see it, when it comes to how one lives ones life, we should find the answers from our experience of life, not on a belief of what happens after we die. And I would urge everyone to do the same. Unfounded beliefs, although can be harmless to hold, should not interfere with how you live your life.

Anyways, this detracts from the original topic of the post.

Touché, I didn't qualify that. Maybe I should have said that "ignorance is bliss" holds true only within the realms of reason. Then again, communion could be seen as cannibalism. Thats a good point.

[Demyx]

I see that any religion is based on faith and what you believe. Believe it or not, doesn't matter.

If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?

I always saw world disasters and evil made by humans a test, trial, whatever you want to call it, of faith. I see it as God creating these to see how many people turn to religion and how many turn away.

[woofwoof]

I see that any religion is based on faith and what you believe. Believe it or not, doesn't matter.

If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?

I always saw world disasters and evil made by humans a test, trial, whatever you want to call it, of faith. I see it as God creating these to see how many people turn to religion and how many turn away.

Very good point Dem. I agree.

[Munter]

I see that any religion is based on faith and what you believe. Believe it or not, doesn't matter.

If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?

I always saw world disasters and evil made by humans a test, trial, whatever you want to call it, of faith. I see it as God creating these to see how many people turn to religion and how many turn away.

Ah, yes. However, If God created the world, and all the laws of physics, plate tectonics etc, then he created in environment in which earthquakes etc occur.

So, he's created a world in which suffering happens on a very large scale.
By saying he tests us you forego God's all knowing capabilities.

By testing you, he must not know what you are going to do in the face of the test, otherwise if he does know he is just being cruel, making you undergo horrific things, saying it's a test, and knowing already what you will do in the face of the test. If this is the case then he cannot be all good, by any other definition behaviour such as that would be sadistic. No?

[Demyx]

How bout the other side of God? Temptations by the Devil.

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

You guys are missing the larger and smaller picture,
Reread the topic and feel extremely embarassed.