a topic we should discuss

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Boxorino
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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Boxorino » 04 Oct 2014, 15:30

Shadow00 wrote:my comment was against sawce acting surprised that it is mostly men that fight for the men's rights/it is wrong for that to happen


i wasn't surprised, i was just disgusted. also i was just posting that as evidence people can use in their arguments about whatever.
that was dramatic. still ready 2 die tho!

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Shadow00 » 04 Oct 2014, 15:35

IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:
Shadow00 wrote:my comment was against sawce acting surprised that it is mostly men that fight for the men's rights/it is wrong for that to happen


i wasn't surprised, i was just disgusted. also i was just posting that as evidence people can use in their arguments about whatever.

Therefore you can understand why it is that so many people feel also disgusted about the women's movement in the year two thousand and fourteen.

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Foopzheart » 04 Oct 2014, 16:32

So what's going on here is people are saying "some people are rapists, therefore I should avoid everyone/men in general"

No.

That's wrong.

If you want to stop the rape culture thing that is not the way. You want people to stop living in fear, don't tell them to. Let people be confident. Don't plant this fear in their head that walking down the street will get them thrown in a ditch. Because honestly, it doesn't happen as often as people say, and the fear just brings more attention to it. It's like terrorism or something. The more attention, the more FEAR fed into it, the more it intensifies.
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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Shadow00 » 04 Oct 2014, 21:47

Fuipui wrote:So what's going on here is people are saying "some people are rapists, therefore I should avoid everyone/men in general"

No.

That's wrong.

If you want to stop the rape culture thing that is not the way. You want people to stop living in fear, don't tell them to. Let people be confident. Don't plant this fear in their head that walking down the street will get them thrown in a ditch. Because honestly, it doesn't happen as often as people say, and the fear just brings more attention to it. It's like terrorism or something. The more attention, the more FEAR fed into it, the more it intensifies.


The pedobear has spoken

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Foopzheart » 04 Oct 2014, 21:58

Shadow00 wrote:
Fuipui wrote:So what's going on here is people are saying "some people are rapists, therefore I should avoid everyone/men in general"

No.

That's wrong.

If you want to stop the rape culture thing that is not the way. You want people to stop living in fear, don't tell them to. Let people be confident. Don't plant this fear in their head that walking down the street will get them thrown in a ditch. Because honestly, it doesn't happen as often as people say, and the fear just brings more attention to it. It's like terrorism or something. The more attention, the more FEAR fed into it, the more it intensifies.


The pedobear has spoken

That's behind me now Shadow
we don't talk about that
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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby TheKingsHills » 05 Oct 2014, 08:29

IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:it confuses me that people think it's irrational for a female to fear men because she's scared of sexual assault, which is a thing that happens a lot now a days, but it's rational to fear shark attacks, which hardly ever happens ever.


I know I posted the real statistics somewhere, but I can't remember where.
Anyway, rape does not happen a lot, or as much as you might think it does.
And even then, what about Male rape? It's an under-reported thing, I feel like it should be brought to light as well, but how many people actually bring it up?
Side note, quite a bit more rape than I'd like is accepted as rape because the woman is drunk and reported it as rape the night after. Because of this, quite a few more women should as well be charged with rape because of this 'being drunk means you cannot consent' thing. It's just that as far as I'm aware, many don't view being "raped" as being raped.

IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:Image
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disgusting.

how is this disgusting?
There are men that honestly feel that there are issues with men's rights that needs to be addressed.
"The men's rights movement has been involved in a variety of law-related areas (including family law, parenting, reproduction and domestic violence), government services (including education, compulsory military service and social safety nets), and health policies that they believe discriminate against men."
Quoted straight from wikipedia.
Now, you may pull out the argument that Feminism does fight for equality for men as well. But there are many men that feel that Feminism might be straying from the path that follows the idea that all genders are equal and that some genders are not being treated equally. There are men that are for the Men's rights movements because they feel that Feminism might be overshooting and may be harming men.
I personally would not like to choose a side, I prefer to identify as an egalitarian
, because yes I do believe all the genders should be equal, but I also believe all PEOPLE should be equal.
You will argue that feminism does fight for equality for all people. But until the definition for it in official dictionaries (not urban dictionary) is changed I will continue to view it as a movement for more female rights. (I will not that females do have their rights, at least in most, if not all Western countries, I personally find that Feminism has lost a lot of its purpose. Not saying that it's purposeless and kept alive for no reason at all, I'm merely saying that it's not as valid? I don't quite know the best word for it. As it used to be.)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

Tycoon Witch wrote:

of course women are largely going to be fighting for women's rights

Curious, does this mean that feminists are fighting for women's rights? or is it gender-equality they're fighting for?

Alright done with the quotes now.
Rape is an issue that happens, without a doubt it does happen and will continue to happen. There is no stopping it unless you program people in a way where it is impossible for any one person to rape anyone.

Now there are steps that can be taken to prevent it.
I personally feel that some rape, is in part, the victim's fault for not taking the necessary precautions.
Note I say some rape because there are rape cases where the victim couldn't have done anything else to prevent it. These do exist.
But what I am saying, is that the victims who do walk around in more "attractive" clothing (you know what I mean) and do not take appropriate measures to protect themselves in the case that someone does try something, it is partly their fault. In a perfect society, yes they shouldn't have to worry about whether or not someone is going to rape them or sexually assault them. But we do not live in a perfect society. Although in this society you are given the means to protect yourself. You can get the permits for tools to use in self defense, pepper spray, learning self defense techniques, hidden carry or open carry licenses.
For my reason as to why I think a victim who walked down the street in a skimpy outfit is partly in fault would probably be best explained in an example I've used.

If a man leaves his wallet out in an easy to reach spot such as, his hands, on the table, etc. A thief will find this man an attractive option for a theft and will most likely take the opportunity. Now is it his fault for leaving his wallet out? Yes. It definitely is, had he taken the proper steps to prevent it from being stolen, it could have been prevented.
How does this relate to the skimpy outfit argument?
A normal individual will see that wallet as a nice wallet, or they may think that this guy will probably get his wallet stolen. As such a normal person will view this victim (in this case we'll assume the victim is a woman) as an attractive women, some may hit on her, some may attempt to start conversation, others may just admire her from "afar".
A messed up individual may then see this woman as a potential victim, I say messed up because I believe only a messed up individual would knowingly sexually assault a woman. He sees this woman as attractive, and vulnerable because she is a woman. Yes, women are generally physically weaker than men. And a rapist might view this woman as such, physically weaker. Despite knowing that there are men who could very well sexually assault her, she decides not to educate herself on self defense, or carry some type of weapon for self defense. Assuming in this case, the man overpowers her and assaults her afterwards without the use of a weapon, yes it is her fault. She knew this was a possibility, albeit a small possibility, but she chose not to prepare herself for this.
Now if the man was armed, it would be a different story. Now, if the woman had an open carry, it is less likely that someone would assault her, a concealed carry could also give the woman more leverage in an encounter with a potential sexual assault, even different forms of self defense could allow the woman to disarm the potential rapist. Now this isn't always possible, but these are means that are available to women. To continue ignoring these options and playing women as complete victims would be ignorant. Women are completely capable of defending themselves.
Just as men need to take precautions against being mugged, or assaulted. Women should also be taking these same precautions because criminals generally do not care what type of body parts you have. They do what they want despite it being against the law and they do not care.

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Boxorino » 05 Oct 2014, 15:41

Image

" One would assume that scientists, who are trained to think objectively, are completely immune to gender discrimination. However, a recent Yale study by Corinne Moss-Racusin and colleagues suggests otherwise.

The researchers created a fictional student and sent out the student’s application to science professors at top, research-intensive universities in the United States. The professors were asked to evaluate how competent this student was, how likely they would be to hire the student, how much they would pay this student, and how willing they would be to mentor the student. All of the applications sent out were identical, except for the fact that half were for a male applicant, John, and half were for a female applicant, Jennifer. Results showed that, with statistical significance, both male and female faculty at these institutions were biased towards male students over female students.

Data from the study shows that on average, science faculty was willing to pay the male applicant about $4,000 more per year.
"

Source.
that was dramatic. still ready 2 die tho!

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Foopzheart » 05 Oct 2014, 18:53

IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:Image

" One would assume that scientists, who are trained to think objectively, are completely immune to gender discrimination. However, a recent Yale study by Corinne Moss-Racusin and colleagues suggests otherwise.

The researchers created a fictional student and sent out the student’s application to science professors at top, research-intensive universities in the United States. The professors were asked to evaluate how competent this student was, how likely they would be to hire the student, how much they would pay this student, and how willing they would be to mentor the student. All of the applications sent out were identical, except for the fact that half were for a male applicant, John, and half were for a female applicant, Jennifer. Results showed that, with statistical significance, both male and female faculty at these institutions were biased towards male students over female students.

Data from the study shows that on average, science faculty was willing to pay the male applicant about $4,000 more per year.
"

Source.

Who did they ask? Who was involved in the experiment? There could be all the bias there depending on who the experiment was done on.
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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Boxorino » 05 Oct 2014, 20:08

Fuipui wrote:
IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:Image

" One would assume that scientists, who are trained to think objectively, are completely immune to gender discrimination. However, a recent Yale study by Corinne Moss-Racusin and colleagues suggests otherwise.

The researchers created a fictional student and sent out the student’s application to science professors at top, research-intensive universities in the United States. The professors were asked to evaluate how competent this student was, how likely they would be to hire the student, how much they would pay this student, and how willing they would be to mentor the student. All of the applications sent out were identical, except for the fact that half were for a male applicant, John, and half were for a female applicant, Jennifer. Results showed that, with statistical significance, both male and female faculty at these institutions were biased towards male students over female students.

Data from the study shows that on average, science faculty was willing to pay the male applicant about $4,000 more per year.
"

Source.

Who did they ask? Who was involved in the experiment? There could be all the bias there depending on who the experiment was done on.


I think it says the schools in the article. Also the people who sent in applications weren't real people, they were fictional people who both had the same credentials. The only difference is that one was male and one was female.
that was dramatic. still ready 2 die tho!

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Re: a topic we should discuss

Postby Foopzheart » 05 Oct 2014, 20:15

IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:
Fuipui wrote:
IlikeAwesomeSauce wrote:Image

" One would assume that scientists, who are trained to think objectively, are completely immune to gender discrimination. However, a recent Yale study by Corinne Moss-Racusin and colleagues suggests otherwise.

The researchers created a fictional student and sent out the student’s application to science professors at top, research-intensive universities in the United States. The professors were asked to evaluate how competent this student was, how likely they would be to hire the student, how much they would pay this student, and how willing they would be to mentor the student. All of the applications sent out were identical, except for the fact that half were for a male applicant, John, and half were for a female applicant, Jennifer. Results showed that, with statistical significance, both male and female faculty at these institutions were biased towards male students over female students.

Data from the study shows that on average, science faculty was willing to pay the male applicant about $4,000 more per year.
"

Source.

Who did they ask? Who was involved in the experiment? There could be all the bias there depending on who the experiment was done on.


I think it says the schools in the article. Also the people who sent in applications weren't real people, they were fictional people who both had the same credentials. The only difference is that one was male and one was female.

I mean who got the applications
can we see the applications, what the applications say
there's not enough to this for me to accept it
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