Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

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Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 29 Apr 2015, 09:25

Mother Jones wrote a really good article. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... wmin-purge also they have a couple videos on their own page of the riots if you want to see those.
The funeral of Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old black man who died in police custody this month, had ended hours earlier at a nearby church. According to the Baltimore Sun, a call to "purge"—a reference to the 2013 dystopian film in which all crime is made legal for one night—circulated on social media among school-aged Baltimoreans that morning. The rumored plan—which was not traced to any specific person or group—was to assemble at the Mondawmin Mall at 3:00 p.m. and proceed down Pennsylvania Avenue toward downtown Baltimore. The Baltimore police department, which was aware of the "purge" call, prepared for the worst. Shortly before noon, the department issued a statement saying it had "received credible information that members of various gangs…have entered into a partnership to 'take-out' law enforcement officers."

When school let out that afternoon, police were in the area equipped with full riot gear. According to eyewitnesses in the Mondawmin neighborhood, the police were stopping busses and forcing riders, including many students who were trying to get home, to disembark. Cops shut down the local subway stop. They also blockaded roads near the Mondawmin Mall and Frederick Douglass High School, which is across the street from the mall, and essentially corralled young people in the area. That is, they did not allow the after-school crowd to disperse.

Meghann Harris, a teacher at a nearby school, described on Facebook what happened:

Police were forcing busses to stop and unload all their passengers. Then, [Frederick Douglass High School] students, in huge herds, were trying to leave on various busses but couldn't catch any because they were all shut down. No kids were yet around except about 20, who looked like they were waiting for police to do something. The cops, on the other hand, were in full riot gear, marching toward any small social clique of students…It looked as if there were hundreds of cops.

The kids were "standing around in groups of 3-4," Harris said in a Facebook message to Mother Jones. "They weren't doing anything. No rock throwing, nothing…The cops started marching toward groups of kids who were just milling about."

A teacher at Douglass High School, who asked not to be identified, tells a similar story: "When school was winding down, many students were leaving early with their parents or of their own accord." Those who didn't depart early, she says, were stranded. Many of the students still at school at that point, she notes, wanted to get out of the area and avoid any Purge-like violence. Some were requesting rides home from teachers. But by now, it was difficult to leave the neighborhood. "I rode with another teacher home," this teacher recalls, "and we had to route our travel around the police in riot gear blocking the road… The majority of my students thought what was going to happen was stupid or were frightened at the idea. Very few seemed to want to participate in 'the purge.'"

A parent who picked up his children from a nearby elementary school, says via Twitter, "The kids stood across from the police and looked like they were asking them 'why can't we get on the buses' but the police were just gazing…Majority of those kids aren't from around that neighborhood. They NEED those buses and trains in order to get home." He continued: "If they would've let them children go home, yesterday wouldn't have even turned out like that."

Meg Gibson, another Baltimore teacher, described a similar scene to Gawker: "The riot police were already at the bus stop on the other side of the mall, turning buses that transport the students away, not allowing students to board. They were waiting for the kids.…Those kids were set up, they were treated like criminals before the first brick was thrown." With police unloading busses, and with the nearby metro station shut down, there were few ways for students to clear out.

Several eyewitnesses in the area that afternoon say that police seemed to arrive at Mondawmin anticipating mobs and violence—prior to any looting. At 3:01 p.m., the Baltimore Police Department posted on its Facebook page: "There is a group of juveniles in the area of Mondawmin Mall. Expect traffic delays in the area." But many of the kids, according to eyewitnesses, were stuck there because of police actions.

The Baltimore Police Department did not respond to requests for comment.

Around 3:30, the police reported that juveniles had begun to throw bottles and bricks. Fifteen minutes later, the police department noted that one of its officers had been injured. After that the violence escalated, and rioters started looting the Mondawmin Mall, and Baltimore was in for a long night of trouble and violence. But as the event is reviewed and investigated, an important question warrants attention: What might have happened had the police not prevented students from leaving the area? Did the department's own actions increase the chances of conflict?

As Meghann Harris put it, "if I were a Douglas student that just got trapped in the middle of a minefield BY cops without any way to get home and completely in harm's way, I'd be ready to pop off, too."

On social media, eyewitnesses chronicled the dramatic police presence before the rioting began:


The Atlantic wrote a good one too: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ce/391640/
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby TheKingsHills » 29 Apr 2015, 10:06

Base on these quotes I have gathered this.

The police shut down all public transportation in the area around the school.
In response the students gathered at the mall, like planned for the "purge," and threw bottles and bricks at the police.

Also, is running from the police for no reason, not suspicious?
In the Atlantic it is said the police made eye contact with Gray and he ran.
This is not suspicious? At all?
Why would he run from the police if he had done nothing wrong?
Essentially, if he had done nothing wrong why would his non-crimes be so bad that he felt it was necessary to run from the police without being confronted. Why would you run from the police at all?
If you have done nothing wrong, you should have no problem with talking to the police, and proving your innocence in court. Assuming you are innocent. You have no reason to run from the police if you are innocent.

One of the things I have noticed in all of these police brutality cases that have hit the mainstream media. Is that most, if not all of those I've heard about have involved the victim RESISTING ARREST.
These people would probably still be alive if they didn't attempt to resist arrest.

The point is, I think the riot was distasteful. Regardless of justified or not.
Just people taking advantage of a death of a fellow person to take out violent urges.

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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 29 Apr 2015, 20:19

Grimreaper666 wrote:Base on these quotes I have gathered this.

The police shut down all public transportation in the area around the school.
In response the students gathered at the mall, like planned for the "purge," and threw bottles and bricks at the police.

Also, is running from the police for no reason, not suspicious?
when you live in a Police State, especially one that discriminates against the poor and colored,I don't think its suspicious at all.
In the Atlantic it is said the police made eye contact with Gray and he ran.
This is not suspicious? At all?
Why would he run from the police if he had done nothing wrong?

There have been many, many cases of police brutality when the victim has done absolutely nothing wrong. I'm not talking about ones where it is debatable like Micheal Brown, but cases like the one in (i believe pennyslvania) where a group of cops pulled a white old man out of his car, into the grass at the side, and proceded to beat him to death. Another case of a middle aged white male was shot in his car at a stopping spot on the high way because he reached for his car pocket when the officer requested he present his ID and car registration. the officer claimed he was reaching for a gun. In a country where this happens, especially in Baltimore, where the Baltimore Police Department has murdered over 100 people since 2010, people want to avoid the police.
Essentially, if he had done nothing wrong why would his non-crimes be so bad that he felt it was necessary to run from the police without being confronted. Why would you run from the police at all?
If the Police had a record of murder and extortion then yes I would.
If you have done nothing wrong, you should have no problem with talking to the police, and proving your innocence in court. Assuming you are innocent. You have no reason to run from the police if you are innocent.
Do you also agree with the New Patriot Act and the US Government stripping your constitutional rights away in order to root out terrorism? Bear in mind the CIA and other organizations have done reports labeling how the NPA and NSA have done nothing successful in stopping terrorism. The, "if you've done nothing wrong" reason is full of crap and is not a valid reason to be mandhandled or confronted or forced to undergo illegal searches.

One of the things I have noticed in all of these police brutality cases that have hit the mainstream media. Is that most, if not all of those I've heard about have involved the victim RESISTING ARREST.
What constitutes resisting arrest is moving in any way, shape, or form that the police does not take kindly. So if you're handcuffed, and you move your arms around to try to get comfortable, that is resisting arrest. If you're getting tackled and you wiggle forward so you can breathe or get some weight off of you, that is also resisting arrest. Coming from a family full of boys and dogs, all I've done is wrestle, and let me tell you, it is impossible to get tackled and not move at all, because you always fall down weird where you can't breathe right or an area hurts and you need to wiggle to get into a comfortable spot. This all counts as resisting arrest.
These people would probably still be alive if they didn't attempt to resist arrest.

The point is, I think the riot was distasteful. Regardless of justified or not.
Just people taking advantage of a death of a fellow person to take out violent urges.
Gray's death marked the 115th? I believe, death in Baltimore in the space of 5 years. Also, a big bank had bought many houses and properties in Baltimore and proceed to foreclose on families for ridiculous reasons so they could kick them out. That area of Baltimore has received very little economic funds to build themselves up and pull themselves out of the gutter. The riots did not use Gray's death, its been a long period of time of constant government negligence and discrimination that as prompted for the people of Baltimore to rise up and protest.



This isn't about race (though it is a huge part of the problem) it all stems from poverty and harsh classist views against the poor. This stems from ghettos being completely ignored, and the lack of funding to help these people get out and get jobs. Bad economic areas result to violence because they are mad. Keep this in mind, if America invest money to rebuild its infrastructure and its ghettos, there would be no more violence. You don't see the Swedish Government opening fire and tear gassing Muslim protesters who want legal protection for their faith.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby ghost 9 » 30 Apr 2015, 13:58

Hindsite is always 20/20. They did the right thing in response to the purge call, because kids are stupid, and they had to be addressed.

The cops who killed Gray should be sent to jail, because there's no way you can accidentallt sever someone's spine. With that having been said, rioting and affiliating with gangs is the easiest and most sure fire way to deteriorate a cause.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby mmm » 30 Apr 2015, 14:36

@Hatty Grah was carrying a switchblade, which is illegal.

The police are motivated to carry out a fair trial (and I wouldn't be surprised if federal agencies were involved), so I am relatively certain that the trial will do enough to reveal the circumstances around Gray's death. A prominent theory currently buzzing around is that since Gray was not buckled in when he was transported in the van, his spine was damaged (he had recently had surgery in relation to his spine) and that the cops were guilty of not 1) Strapping him in and 2) Waiting to provide medical treatment. We'll see.

What surprised me is the people who say the riots are justified; I (sadly) expect bigots to misrepresent the protestors as "thugs" and call for them to be shot. But here I have not a few contacts on social media saying that "riots are the voice of the unheard" and that the rights the Baltimore rioters are fighting for supersede the rights of property owners; are you kidding me?

MLK wasn't justifying riots when he said they were the voice of the unheard; he was explaining causation. And all the Baltimore rioters (not protestors) are doing is alienating people who would otherwise think "Huh. Police brutality ISN'T cool and affects people of color disproportionatly. I will reflect that belief in his I vote from now on." Without these (probably primarily) non-black allies, politicians won't feel as much of a push to do anything to reform the criminal justice system.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 01 May 2015, 10:11

mmm wrote:@Hatty Grah was carrying a switchblade, which is illegal.

The police are motivated to carry out a fair trial (and I wouldn't be surprised if federal agencies were involved), so I am relatively certain that the trial will do enough to reveal the circumstances around Gray's death. A prominent theory currently buzzing around is that since Gray was not buckled in when he was transported in the van, his spine was damaged (he had recently had surgery in relation to his spine) and that the cops were guilty of not 1) Strapping him in and 2) Waiting to provide medical treatment. We'll see.

What surprised me is the people who say the riots are justified; I (sadly) expect bigots to misrepresent the protestors as "thugs" and call for them to be shot. But here I have not a few contacts on social media saying that "riots are the voice of the unheard" and that the rights the Baltimore rioters are fighting for supersede the rights of property owners; are you kidding me?

MLK wasn't justifying riots when he said they were the voice of the unheard; he was explaining causation. And all the Baltimore rioters (not protestors) are doing is alienating people who would otherwise think "Huh. Police brutality ISN'T cool and affects people of color disproportionatly. I will reflect that belief in his I vote from now on." Without these (probably primarily) non-black allies, politicians won't feel as much of a push to do anything to reform the criminal justice system.

I'm not justifying the riots, what I'm saying (and others who are probably justifying them) is that the riots are not the problem, they are a response to the problem. The problem is a class warfare in the United States where the government extorts and makes so much money off of the poor, as they smash the middle class into the poor.

No one complained when the Baltimore PD extorted hundreds of citizens of Baltimore, stopping them at their cars and robbing them of their personal posessions.

No one complained when a gigantic bank bought a bunch of houses in Baltimore, to then foreclose on people for rediculous reason, adding to the already high homeless population.

No one complained when the middle class of Baltimore left downtown to live in the suburbs because it was safer there.

No one complained when Baltimore Public Education lost so much funding, because they do a program where the taxes collected by each school's district decides the school's funding, so since the middle class left, schools failed.

No one complained about the 115 people before Gray being brutally murdered by the police since 2010.

With all this angst and hatred against the City government of Baltimore, its logical to assume that somewhere down the road, probably after 2013, that a big protest was going to erupt in Baltimore. And boom it did, and NOW people get involved, but instead of hating the city government for managing the city so inefficiently and careless and absolute, people get mad at the protesters?? what???

Look, I do not agree with the riots at all, but to focus all of your points on them, rather than the bigger picture of Poverty, a Class War, and racial prosecution against the citizens of Baltimore is absurd. What we need to do is charge the city government and get them out of power, because for the past 5 years, they've destroyed the city, crushed the middle class, extorted from the poor, and beaten the people into submission.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby mmm » 01 May 2015, 15:28

Shadowstar1922 wrote:
mmm wrote:@Hatty Grah was carrying a switchblade, which is illegal.

The police are motivated to carry out a fair trial (and I wouldn't be surprised if federal agencies were involved), so I am relatively certain that the trial will do enough to reveal the circumstances around Gray's death. A prominent theory currently buzzing around is that since Gray was not buckled in when he was transported in the van, his spine was damaged (he had recently had surgery in relation to his spine) and that the cops were guilty of not 1) Strapping him in and 2) Waiting to provide medical treatment. We'll see.

What surprised me is the people who say the riots are justified; I (sadly) expect bigots to misrepresent the protestors as "thugs" and call for them to be shot. But here I have not a few contacts on social media saying that "riots are the voice of the unheard" and that the rights the Baltimore rioters are fighting for supersede the rights of property owners; are you kidding me?

MLK wasn't justifying riots when he said they were the voice of the unheard; he was explaining causation. And all the Baltimore rioters (not protestors) are doing is alienating people who would otherwise think "Huh. Police brutality ISN'T cool and affects people of color disproportionatly. I will reflect that belief in his I vote from now on." Without these (probably primarily) non-black allies, politicians won't feel as much of a push to do anything to reform the criminal justice system.

I'm not justifying the riots, what I'm saying (and others who are probably justifying them) is that the riots are not the problem, they are a response to the problem. The problem is a class warfare in the United States where the government extorts and makes so much money off of the poor, as they smash the middle class into the poor.

No one complained when the Baltimore PD extorted hundreds of citizens of Baltimore, stopping them at their cars and robbing them of their personal posessions.

No one complained when a gigantic bank bought a bunch of houses in Baltimore, to then foreclose on people for rediculous reason, adding to the already high homeless population.

No one complained when the middle class of Baltimore left downtown to live in the suburbs because it was safer there.

No one complained when Baltimore Public Education lost so much funding, because they do a program where the taxes collected by each school's district decides the school's funding, so since the middle class left, schools failed.

No one complained about the 115 people before Gray being brutally murdered by the police since 2010.

With all this angst and hatred against the City government of Baltimore, its logical to assume that somewhere down the road, probably after 2013, that a big protest was going to erupt in Baltimore. And boom it did, and NOW people get involved, but instead of hating the city government for managing the city so inefficiently and careless and absolute, people get mad at the protesters?? what???

Look, I do not agree with the riots at all, but to focus all of your points on them, rather than the bigger picture of Poverty, a Class War, and racial prosecution against the citizens of Baltimore is absurd. What we need to do is charge the city government and get them out of power, because for the past 5 years, they've destroyed the city, crushed the middle class, extorted from the poor, and beaten the people into submission.

I never said you were justifying them. The reason I was talking about the rioters and not the larger issue at hand was because I never expected anyone to take the point of view that mindlessly destroying property was justified. I see no need to discuss Baltimore's larger corruption in here because 1) It seems we are on the same page anyway and 2) I have never convinced anyone of anything on FWG because we are all a bunch of stubborn assholes d:

Oh, also turns out the Gray didn't have a preexisting condition related to his spine. The surgery was unrelated.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby The Divine Potato » 01 May 2015, 15:47

Hatty wrote:
mmm wrote:
Shadowstar1922 wrote:
mmm wrote:@Hatty Grah was carrying a switchblade, which is illegal.

The police are motivated to carry out a fair trial (and I wouldn't be surprised if federal agencies were involved), so I am relatively certain that the trial will do enough to reveal the circumstances around Gray's death. A prominent theory currently buzzing around is that since Gray was not buckled in when he was transported in the van, his spine was damaged (he had recently had surgery in relation to his spine) and that the cops were guilty of not 1) Strapping him in and 2) Waiting to provide medical treatment. We'll see.

What surprised me is the people who say the riots are justified; I (sadly) expect bigots to misrepresent the protestors as "thugs" and call for them to be shot. But here I have not a few contacts on social media saying that "riots are the voice of the unheard" and that the rights the Baltimore rioters are fighting for supersede the rights of property owners; are you kidding me?

MLK wasn't justifying riots when he said they were the voice of the unheard; he was explaining causation. And all the Baltimore rioters (not protestors) are doing is alienating people who would otherwise think "Huh. Police brutality ISN'T cool and affects people of color disproportionatly. I will reflect that belief in his I vote from now on." Without these (probably primarily) non-black allies, politicians won't feel as much of a push to do anything to reform the criminal justice system.

I'm not justifying the riots, what I'm saying (and others who are probably justifying them) is that the riots are not the problem, they are a response to the problem. The problem is a class warfare in the United States where the government extorts and makes so much money off of the poor, as they smash the middle class into the poor.

No one complained when the Baltimore PD extorted hundreds of citizens of Baltimore, stopping them at their cars and robbing them of their personal posessions.

No one complained when a gigantic bank bought a bunch of houses in Baltimore, to then foreclose on people for rediculous reason, adding to the already high homeless population.

No one complained when the middle class of Baltimore left downtown to live in the suburbs because it was safer there.

No one complained when Baltimore Public Education lost so much funding, because they do a program where the taxes collected by each school's district decides the school's funding, so since the middle class left, schools failed.

No one complained about the 115 people before Gray being brutally murdered by the police since 2010.

With all this angst and hatred against the City government of Baltimore, its logical to assume that somewhere down the road, probably after 2013, that a big protest was going to erupt in Baltimore. And boom it did, and NOW people get involved, but instead of hating the city government for managing the city so inefficiently and careless and absolute, people get mad at the protesters?? what???

Look, I do not agree with the riots at all, but to focus all of your points on them, rather than the bigger picture of Poverty, a Class War, and racial prosecution against the citizens of Baltimore is absurd. What we need to do is charge the city government and get them out of power, because for the past 5 years, they've destroyed the city, crushed the middle class, extorted from the poor, and beaten the people into submission.

I never said you were justifying them. The reason I was talking about the rioters and not the larger issue at hand was because I never expected anyone to take the point of view that mindlessly destroying property was justified. I see no need to discuss Baltimore's larger corruption in here because 1) It seems we are on the same page anyway and 2) I have never convinced anyone of anything on FWG because we are all a bunch of stubborn assholes d:

Oh, also turns out the Gray didn't have a preexisting condition related to his spine. The surgery was unrelated.


My bad, didn't know he was carrying a switchblade. Even then, that hardly warrants the actions against him (also am casual pointing out that Americans can carry guns but nonono not KNIVES).

Mindlessly destroying property is never right-but the essence of the riots, which is the deep dissatisfaction and anger with the government is justified, although they could've manifested it a little better.


Just about the knife thing, it's a concealed blade, one of the illegal types of blade, like a sword. Or a shuriken.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby mmm » 01 May 2015, 16:50

Oh, I would also argue that the riots ARE a problem for the reasons I listed previously. They are a problematic reaction to a larger problem, but a problem nonetheless.

Black Lives Matter advocates need the support of those who are on the fence, and like I said, the riots are alienating those people.
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Re: Baltimore Riots & The Death of Freddie Gray

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 01 May 2015, 18:48

mmm wrote:Oh, I would also argue that the riots ARE a problem for the reasons I listed previously. They are a problematic reaction to a larger problem, but a problem nonetheless.

Black Lives Matter advocates need the support of those who are on the fence, and like I said, the riots are alienating those people.

What are you more concerned with? Bostonians throwing a bunch of tea in protest into the harbour, thus ruining stability in Boston and tea profits, or the constant violation East America's economic freedoms by Great Britain?

What are you more concerned about, all the factory strikes in Russia that caused government crack down and a downturn of an already wrecked economy, or the constant extortion and government bullying of the Russian Imperial Government against their people?

What are you more concerned about, the storming of Bastille, protesters damaging government property in protest of an absolute government, or economic mismanagement of the French monarchy, as well as the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer?

It is impossible to play the card, "oh be the better man and don't be violent!" Yeah, we can apply that in real life, because if someone is bullyng another person, people all around will see the aggressor and think, "damn, that is so wrong, I'm going to help the victim" and so we insist if you're being targeting, all you do is show your troubles and people will help you! because we raise people to be decent enough that at least one person will step in and fix everything.

That doesn't apply in the real world because a majority of international governments are not good governments. Where was Iraq's savior when America demanded her lunch money?? Surely not Iran, who was getting lunch from China. Surely not Syria, who was fighting with her little sister, surely not Israel, who was studying with Egypt at the lunch table right near Iraq's mishap. Why would Suadi Arabia do anything?? She was talking to her teacher about the last chemistry class.

We don't live in a world where we can play this card, where we can do nothing and some older authority will come and step in and defend the bullied. We simply can't. No country is going to stand up for the American proletariat and say, "wow, that government is abusing its people, its extorting them, ripping away their democracy, stomping on their civil rights, and crushing them further into poverty, as well as constantly violating their own constitution! we have to do something!!"

In a world society like this, riots need to happen, violence needs to be met with violence. You can't simply look at the track record of Baltimore, how the City of Baltimore executed state terrorism against its own people, and not have once complained about Baltimore abusing its people, but oh the minute someone abuses Baltimore, that's when we want to complain?? That's when we want to point and screech names and pretend like moral super heroes and present our self-esteemed principles? what????
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