US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

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Is the US bombing of an Afghan Hospital A War Crime?

Yes.
4
50%
No.
2
25%
I don't know.
2
25%
Maybe.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 8

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Shadow00

Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadow00 » 06 Oct 2015, 21:24

Is it a war crime? Lol dude chill.
In wars armed people are probably the safest.

It is well known the best way to win a war (other than killing every enemy soldier of course) is to force a surrender by destroying their morale.
Now most great military leaders and/or great kingdoms have taken up this very simple tactic.
Instead of attacking the enemy forces, you attack the enemy unarmed civilians.
That way the soldiers have their morale broken because apparently their dying doesn't save their loved ones, and well, you win the war.

I doubt for example that Hiroshima or Nagasaki were military bases of notice.
It's not a war crime, its war in its purest form.

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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 08 Oct 2015, 18:31

Shadow00 wrote:Is it a war crime? Lol dude chill.
In wars armed people are probably the safest.

It is well known the best way to win a war (other than killing every enemy soldier of course) is to force a surrender by destroying their morale.
Now most great military leaders and/or great kingdoms have taken up this very simple tactic.
Instead of attacking the enemy forces, you attack the enemy unarmed civilians.
That way the soldiers have their morale broken because apparently their dying doesn't save their loved ones, and well, you win the war.

I doubt for example that Hiroshima or Nagasaki were military bases of notice.
It's not a war crime, its war in its purest form.


the IV Geneva Convention of 1949 strictly prohibits any form of act of violence against non-combatant centers whose sole purpose is to aid the wounded and sick. This includes hospitals. Bombing a hospital in a time of war or conflict (Afghanistan's situation is a conflict) is a war crime. I don't know why you would tell someone to chill at calling something a war crime when it's clearly a war crime. Read the IV Geneva Convention

https://www.icrc.org/ihl/385ec082b509e7 ... 1e004aa3c5
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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Rainshard » 08 Oct 2015, 19:14

Shadowstar1922 wrote:
Shadow00 wrote:Is it a war crime? Lol dude chill.
In wars armed people are probably the safest.

It is well known the best way to win a war (other than killing every enemy soldier of course) is to force a surrender by destroying their morale.
Now most great military leaders and/or great kingdoms have taken up this very simple tactic.
Instead of attacking the enemy forces, you attack the enemy unarmed civilians.
That way the soldiers have their morale broken because apparently their dying doesn't save their loved ones, and well, you win the war.

I doubt for example that Hiroshima or Nagasaki were military bases of notice.
It's not a war crime, its war in its purest form.


the IV Geneva Convention of 1949 strictly prohibits any form of act of violence against non-combatant centers whose sole purpose is to aid the wounded and sick. This includes hospitals. Bombing a hospital in a time of war or conflict (Afghanistan's situation is a conflict) is a war crime. I don't know why you would tell someone to chill at calling something a war crime when it's clearly a war crime. Read the IV Geneva Convention

https://www.icrc.org/ihl/385ec082b509e7 ... 1e004aa3c5


Kyle is right. This is a war crime. Definitely a war crime if you look at the guidelines we set out to prevent war crimes.

Often, war crimes don't break morale:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

The My Lai massacre was said to have raised the Vietnamese morale against the US. The massacre also caused a loss in support back home, which is being seen now by all the disapproval this air strike has caused. You can even argue that the loss of support back home for Vietnam due to tragedies like My Lai was what led to the war effort failing

Killing innocent people isn't gonna dash morale. How did the nuclear weapons bring Japan's surrender? Fear. Fear that their country could be entirely wiped out with such a destructive weapon.

Take a look at this headline:

"In Yemen, U.S. airstrikes breed anger, and sympathy for al-Qaeda"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mi ... story.html

This airstrike is simply gonna do the same.
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Shadow00

Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadow00 » 09 Oct 2015, 23:51

By definition ofcourse it is a war crime.
In reality i doubt it.

For example lets not forget that back 400 years if you were a redheaded woman you were also probably a witch. People could call her a witch, and i am certain that there actually were laws talking about it too, but what really sucks is the person wasnt a witch all along.

Poor analogy maybe, just trying to get a point across and its 3 am.

either way, point is, you might think war is some macho men attacking other macho men and strategies etc, but im sorry to break it to you, that died out when missiles and air strikes were invented.

War is killing the most people possible with the least possible money spent, especially for the US and especially after vietnam.

So yeah you can regard it as a war crime cause the 4th geneva convention says so, but in all reality imo its just war,as it has always been.


EDIT: About rainshard's comment.
In most military operations you can see all these bombings being regarded as statistical errors.
Having seen exactly how a bombardment works, it is virtually impossible for the bombings to fail at the rate they do. They are all on purpose, and they have been going for a while now.
Now i doubt they want to spend money on bombs just to kill random people that noone probably cares about.

And yeah imo it does affect morale.
Soldiers dont fight because they like to, but because they feel they have to.
If you for example were to go to war and fight, but then found out some days later that every single person you cared about was nuked, would you still have resolve to fight?

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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby mmm » 13 Oct 2015, 03:37

Whoah whoah whoah, this wasn't a deliberate attempt by American forces to destroy morale. NPR reported that Afghani forces requested U.S air support to bomb the hospital after reportedly taking fire (sorry no sources, I heard this while driving).

It's a sad mistake, certainly. War crime is kind of iffy; if you want to be strict about it, sure, every damn country who ever participated in any war committed a war crime because there were civilian casualties. Is that to say that the U.S shouldn't bear any responsibility? Certainly not. Hopefully the independent investigation that is going to be carried out will bear some insight into how we can minimize things like this from happening again. But when Assad is barrel-bombing his own people by the ... barrel, I don't think we should be trying to crucify our military (accusations of crucifixion are not directed at you or anyone else in this thread Kyle, you can stop typing furiously now d:).
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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 13 Oct 2015, 10:37

mmm wrote:Whoah whoah whoah, this wasn't a deliberate attempt by American forces to destroy morale. NPR reported that Afghani forces requested U.S air support to bomb the hospital after reportedly taking fire (sorry no sources, I heard this while driving).

It's a sad mistake, certainly. War crime is kind of iffy; if you want to be strict about it, sure, every damn country who ever participated in any war committed a war crime because there were civilian casualties. Is that to say that the U.S shouldn't bear any responsibility? Certainly not. Hopefully the independent investigation that is going to be carried out will bear some insight into how we can minimize things like this from happening again. But when Assad is barrel-bombing his own people by the ... barrel, I don't think we should be trying to crucify our military (accusations of crucifixion are not directed at you or anyone else in this thread Kyle, you can stop typing furiously now d:).

what assad does to his people should not be a distraction nor to be used to minimize of our own actions. We're talking about the US bombing a hospital and murdering 3 innocent children not the dictatorship of Syria.

accident or not, we bombed a hospital and did so for one entire hour (during said time we knew it was a hospital too). The hospital repeadidly sent telegrams and messages to all active militaries within Afghanistan that it was an independent hospital. Bombing it because the Afghani government told us to is not an excuse.

bombing a hospital is a war crime, no matter what.
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Shadow00

Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadow00 » 13 Oct 2015, 22:34

This is a very old article.
Am posting because of its statistics.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/a ... rtontaylor


Now what I want to point out, and I'm sure you'll notice, you don't just MISS 25-50% of the bombs you throw off a plane.
It's not like they can go anywhere, there is only 2 forces applied to them, gravity and wind resistance, both easily calculated. Therefore you can't possibly miss that many bombs.

Now you may notice that there is absolutely no talk about where those bombs landed, just that they missed their military targets.
I also had another article of the same year about killings in Afghanistan (where if you notice by this article, they were mostly done by air support rather than land units) and apparently it was about 90% civilians.
You do the math.

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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby mmm » 14 Oct 2015, 02:04

Since no one here has proper military bombardier training, I'm not down to debate that angle, Shad d:

Kyle, what's your endgame here? What actions do you want taken as a result of the bombing?
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Re: US Bombs Afghani Hospital, Kills 22

Postby Shadowstar1922 » 14 Oct 2015, 21:26

Shadow00 wrote:This is a very old article.
Am posting because of its statistics.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/a ... rtontaylor


Now what I want to point out, and I'm sure you'll notice, you don't just MISS 25-50% of the bombs you throw off a plane.
It's not like they can go anywhere, there is only 2 forces applied to them, gravity and wind resistance, both easily calculated. Therefore you can't possibly miss that many bombs.

Now you may notice that there is absolutely no talk about where those bombs landed, just that they missed their military targets.
I also had another article of the same year about killings in Afghanistan (where if you notice by this article, they were mostly done by air support rather than land units) and apparently it was about 90% civilians.
You do the math.


okay but as i have said about two times now, is that the hospital was bombed for an entire hour and the US military admitted to knowing they were bombing the hospital for an entire hour and later admitted that the hospital was their target too.
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