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I come back to FWG for a bit and take a deep breath (as customary) before heading into serious discussion to see people I know supporting Trump.

The hell, guys?

Shad00, I know you'll have some super unorthodox reasoning, so hit me up below. But you other guys?

I could understand (thought not agree with) the idea of wanting Trump as president if you are a Democrat, as whatever trainwreck a Trump presidency may yield would mean Democrats would do well elsewhere. But I figure most of the folks here are fairly centrist and just dislike Hillary more; why's that?

She's by no means a "good" candidate, but I have trouble accepting the arguments I've heard. She's got political experience out the wazoo (unlike Trump, who cannot even keep track of who in the Middle East is our ally and who is our enemy [citing that one time he incorrectly referred to some allied military group as an enemy]).

She is also predictable; she's been in office so long, we don't expect her to do anything wacky. Trump, though? We've constantly been mistaken about what he'd do or say; I see no reason for that pattern not to continue with him as a president.

I want people to do a lot of things when it comes to supporting presidential candidates; make logical choices, informed choices, and choices based on your values instead of repeating what others say. I don't need you to agree with me, just agree with my equally personal and subjective requirements d:

It seems as though lots of people see anyone/anything that differs from the norm as a solution to our current problems.

Trump doesn't behave like other politicians = won't act like other politicians if in power = other politicians have caused chaos in America = Trump won't cause chaos = Trump is good

Warped reasoning?

Sylvia wrote:Trump doesn't behave like other politicians = won't act like other politicians if in power = other politicians have caused chaos in America = Trump won't cause chaos = Trump is good

Probably most people falling for this thing here, imo.

I think Trump is NOT a good candidate for presidency, as far as the US is concerned he is probably the worst candidate of the 2 (not counting bernie anymore)

I support the idea of his becoming president for 2 very particular reasons.

First and foremost, I do not reside in the US, and (excuse me for saying so), really dislike its state of foreign affairs,among other things.
Playing world police is not a good thing by my book.

How does a racist billionaire help foreign relations you might ask.

For one, I doubt Trump has anything close to patriotism or racism in himself, but since he had 2 options (to run with the democrats and to run with the republicans), and seeing how the democrats would never ever vote for a man as wealthy, he just did the obvious thing. Also don't forget that all his businesses are legit operating outside of the US since it is much cheaper to hire workers in say, Mexico or China. Doesn't really sound patriotic to me.

Now what I consider he will do, that Hillary can't due to WS backing, is completely ignore most of the promises he makes during his campaign and just sell off deals for personal benefit.
Who knows, he might even try to use his protection as PotUS to actually settle some of his frauds that are court cases at the moment for his own benefit.

If he does go ahead and do something like that, then it can only be good for the rest of the world (The selling off deals part, I mean).
Definitely not good for your state of affairs though.

Don't forget, whatever he says has to actually pass from congress etc before it can happen, so most extreme things will just be shot down.

Again, I cannot possibly see why people that actually live in the US actually support him, unless they are oblivious to the fact that politicians lie.


Now on the second part:
I live in Greece and I've seen my fair share of corrupt politicians, and well, everyone here was pretty much sleeping while money was being traded off around here and there, none going to the people, most to the banks, the rest to off-shore accounts.
The only reason we actually started waking up, was the crisis and the obvious incompetence of our politicians.

Now the US is already in a crisis, so the only thing you need to (literally in some states) take up arms, is to have a VERY incompetent president that literally says a huge FU to his voters and looks for his own benefit. And since Obama was a moderately good prez, i can only hope you have a terrible one next.

I cannot imagine the uproar that would happen by such a case, even if most of his followers seem to be dumbed down to what Syl said for now, but I do hope they will wake up.

That's pretty much all really, other than that it's literally picking the least bad candidate, but both of them are pretty bad to my eyes.
You just decide between someone that will slooooowly drop the US into more chaos, and someone who will go knee deep into mayhem from day 1.
Your pick


Tldr edition.
I like loud people because I need hearing aid.

I agree with much of what Shadow said.
Personally I dislike both of the candidates, for reasons similar to the ones stated.
As such I am supporting third party cus why not. O3O

At this point, doing whatever is necessary to keep Trump out of office should be the top priority of the American people. This isn't just me talking as a Democrat or a Progressive, it is me talking as a humane, moral driven World Citizen.

I have yet to meet anyone from literally ANY other country that says Trump is a good idea. They all say that they would resent America (more if they already do) if Trump becomes President. The man basically wants to rid the US of Islam by banning Muslims from entering the country. He said it was unjust that a Judge did not dismiss one of his court cases because the Judge said that it should move on due to appropriate evidence (Doing his job). When he was approached about this "unjust" claim, all Trump said was that the Judge was of Mexican heritage (even though he was born in Indiana) and that he was going to build a wall. It was cancerous to my ears to hear this and hear my OWN FAMILY support him through those claims.

Trump wants to decrease funding in Education and Environmental Studies/Research to fund big businesses and the military. He said that they are fine where they are. He says that global warming is just something China made up and that his house is completely sealed off so his hairspray cannot affect the atmosphere in any way.

He wants to commit war crimes by stating the only way to beat ISIS is to kill their wives and children. This is considered a major war crime and he wants to torture individuals. This includes torture worse than waterboarding. I have a friend who served in the military and served in Afghanistan and he said that if Trump ever gave the order to do that, he would walk away from the military because they are supposed to serve and protect the Constitution of the US, not take orders to kill noncombatants. He says the US military never wins. Lol. What a jackass, first of all. He says he respects our veterans and then comes out and says that the US never wins. What a supporter, eh? The US military is arguably the strongest in the world, definitely the most funded. It is more funded than, I believe, the next 15 countries combined. To say that the US never wins is FAAAAAR from the truth. He is talking out of his ass. So, he says that the US is "Going to win, and we will do it with our military".

He wants to bring all overseas jobs back to the US (This is an okay goal, but not reachable). He would first have to put his money where his mouth is and move all of his companies back here as well. He is a hypocrite for starts. Then he has to face the fact that prices would skyrocket, no one would be able to afford a damn thing, and inflation would be at its highest EVER.

I am personally afraid for a Trump presidency because racism will be at an all time high. Whenever I talk to Trump supporters or listen to what they say, they say that America is being taken away from them. From who? Is usually what I ask.. And all I hear is "THE MEXICANS, THE MUSLIMS, THE BLACKS, EVERYONE!!!". I just shut off my ears because arguing is pointless. We will be on our own as a nation because I feel Trump will piss off our allies and further enrage our enemies. War will be a definite. He says that he is going to just flat out take oil from Iraq. How? I would probably think not through a sales contract, but rather a military action.

This is pretty damn long. But, since my family is full of Trump supporters, I don't really have much of an outlet without pissing them off or them pissing me off.

Due to the extremelyhigh level of 'murica in the last post, allow me to showcase a point, completely outside of this topic (sort of), as i will proceed to make utter fun of the US military.

The US military as you said is astronomically over-funded.
That means that stuff like ISIS shouldnt even exist, were you doing things correctly.
You shouldnt even have casualties (okay over-reaching a bit here), let alone lose wars.
And then you have 2 very specific things that showcase something different.
Firstly, maybe youre not supposed to win to begin with, meaning your leaders are just sending soldiers so they can die so you keep the image of Middle East= Danger in your head. And you can get backing future tours to say, Syria.
The US military is already killing non-combatants, as much as the airforce is concerned.
Or do you think that god-tier aircraft with some of the BEST auto-aiming systems and smartest missiles in the world, hit hospitals by mistake.
I study engineering and we did have rocket trajectories as a fan fact in a class. The tl;dr version was that unless the pilot is downright stupid, (which apparently he isnt due to cutoff tests) then the possibility of missing is less than 1‰ (thats 1 in 1000)
And that was withOUT auto aiming and SM.
That was just a piece of non-fueled rocket leaving an aircraft and being subject to the forces of gravity, air resistance, and the slight spinning of the earth.
You literally cannot miss.
And i am quiiiiiiiite sure that the US never stopped doing stuff worse than waterboarding. Why would they?
Inb4 muh human rights muh soldiers- hahahahaha no. If soldiers think that it's protecting their country, and a higher up gives the order, about 80% of them carry it out. And that is actually a fact by a psychological test made on humans that were supposed to electrocute other humans with increasing voltage (that was recently carried out again). And those guys didnt even have anything to protect other than the pay theyd get from the test's completion.
Soldier's code and human rights and crap don't apply any longer in this world, except of when you and me are just sitting in front of our computers and chatting like this.




Also, that's the main view of an anti-trump person imo. War and racism and dumb.
Sadly the first two are the main views of most trump supporters too, apparently.
This should be a hell of a lot of fun.

As a former military pilot (albeit heli), I'd like to mention that often the reason hospitals and such are destroyed is not because the pilot "missed" per se, rather that the target was misidentified and/or did not used to be a hospital but has instead been set up in a local building temporarily. Not that this excuses poor reconnaissance to not identify this, but still.

I have not met a single person who even partly agrees with Trump or his policies, and that's pretty much the general consensus here in the UK. So much so that 586,862 of us signed a petition to ban him from the UK altogether and this was debated for 3 HOURS in Parliament (video in the link). I entirely hate him and everything he stands for and if he gets into power I'll have a sweepstake for how many days he goes before being assassinated.

i still maintain that hillary is worse, and that trump's media image is really sensationalized and he's not as terrible as people are claiming he is. still wouldn't vote for him, though.

Flobalob wrote:As a former military pilot (albeit heli), I'd like to mention that often the reason hospitals and such are destroyed is not because the pilot "missed" per se, rather that the target was misidentified and/or did not used to be a hospital but has instead been set up in a local building temporarily. Not that this excuses poor reconnaissance to not identify this, but still.

I have not met a single person who even partly agrees with Trump or his policies, and that's pretty much the general consensus here in the UK. So much so that 586,862 of us signed a petition to ban him from the UK altogether and this was debated for 3 HOURS in Parliament (video in the link). I entirely hate him and everything he stands for and if he gets into power I'll have a sweepstake for how many days he goes before being assassinated.

Random question, but since youre in the UK and seem to know politics, how do you see the referendum working out?

Shadow00 wrote:

Flobalob wrote:As a former military pilot (albeit heli), I'd like to mention that often the reason hospitals and such are destroyed is not because the pilot "missed" per se, rather that the target was misidentified and/or did not used to be a hospital but has instead been set up in a local building temporarily. Not that this excuses poor reconnaissance to not identify this, but still.

I have not met a single person who even partly agrees with Trump or his policies, and that's pretty much the general consensus here in the UK. So much so that 586,862 of us signed a petition to ban him from the UK altogether and this was debated for 3 HOURS in Parliament (video in the link). I entirely hate him and everything he stands for and if he gets into power I'll have a sweepstake for how many days he goes before being assassinated.

Random question, but since youre in the UK and seem to know politics, how do you see the referendum working out?

Honestly, it's way too close to tell. Opinion polls seem to suggest the younger generation, who generally believe we should remain in the EU, tend to have a lower turnout, whilst the older generation is the complete opposite. For that reason I can see a vote to leave going through, but then again opinion polls also told us we'd have a Labour government this time around and it was a complete landslide Conservative victory. I'll personally be voting to leave because as much as I've always been an advocate of a single European Union and a move towards a unified humanity, the EU hasn't worked. It's been overtaken by bureaucracy and I just generally think a half-in-half-out kind of deal really doesn't work; it needs to be all or nothing. If the EU is going to work I think it actually needs to be a single country rather than a collection of them but since that isn't going to happen, I'd prefer a return to the UK's sovereignty. Ultimately, we're one of three countries (UK, Germany, France) that puts more in than they get out and we're losing billions a year from it, so I'm all for taking the leap. Not to be cocky, but I feel like as one of the two biggest superpowers in Europe we can absolutely afford to leave the EU whilst still hogging all the benefits. The EU needs us, and we can take advantage of that. Although, we'll be massively missing out on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership.

Mostly I just feel like nothing big has happened in a while and I want something exciting to happen, but then again I also don't want to agree with Trump because he says we should leave too.

I'm actually being paid to be a Counting Officer on 23rd June so I'll have a good idea a couple hours before everyone else. #InsiderKnowledge