The God Problem.

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

Wait..... We have a second Greek?

I treat Science as more of the " How " and less of the "Why"

[Munter]

God does not create bad things, satan does, satan was a jealous angel who tried to kill god, but was sent to exile in a prison, also known as hell, the reason bad things happen is that he cannot change human will, that is up to us, for we are an independant species, and to say that we were created by a "higher power" is stupid, god loves us, the least we can do for him is aknowledge that we know he exists.

so, for all you non-believers out there, suck on THAT!

But God is supposed to have created Satan, who went against his will. The question is, why did God create someone he knew would go against his will? And why does God allow him to exist? Either he is not powerful enough to stop him, or is not good enough, OR he didn't know that satan would become bad, in which case he is not all knowing!

So you would agree that God is not all powerful then if he cannot change human will? The question is, then why did he create something that he cannot change? Does this mean human will is more powerful than God, the so-called creator? And why did he create a human will that is capable of doing bad things?

AND if he isn't the higher power, then what is he?

And why should we acknowledge his existence? Why should we do anything for him? What could we do for him, at any rate?

These are genuine questions, by the way.

[Munter]

And concerning the 'you dont know the big bang happened' response. This leaves us nowhere in reference to the question as to how a God can exist.

By the same token we cannot know whether or not the sun will rise tomorrow, we merely infer it from the fact it has risen every day we've been alive. We have no proof that it will rise tomorrow, we merely have past observations to assume it will.

The thing is, these observations are based on just that, we observe the world, then make approximate laws and theories to explain what we see and predict what will happen. The Big Bang theory is an explanation that answers a lot (but not all) of the observations of the universe. The theory changes based on what new observations come up.

As with the "God did it" explanation, this is not based in empirical observation of the universe, because whether he exists or not, it has no effect on the physical world we inhabit. Now, a scientific theory also has no real effect on the world, but at least it is based in some form of observation and inference.

[Shadow00]

Ok, it's just like all the ancient civilizations. When they couldn't explain thunders(for example) they'd say "Zeus did it cause he is angry!" now it's about the same story again, but with more complicated things we can't explain.
Finally, I had a talk with my uncle recently (who is a priest) and he told me that God created Lucifer aka The Devil as an angel, but gave him the freedom of choice (like he did with humans) The Devil chose to oppose god. That's the explanation I got.

[Munter]

Here's he question then:

The argument goes like this:

God created the Devil and gave him free will.
The Devil chose to oppose him.

Now, If God is all knowing, then he would have known Lucifer was going to oppose him before he created him, so why did he create him when he already knew this? If this is the case then God cannot be all good.

Lets say that he his all good, though. This means he cant of known that Lucifer was going to oppose him, which means he is not all knowing.

Plus, if the Devil created bad things, then why doesn't God stop him? Is he not powerful enough? Does he not care? Does he not know where Lucifer will strike next? or does he simply not exist?
Someone mentioned sin. Since God created everything, then he must have created the concept of sin, and given humans the capacity to sin (unlike animals, which cannot sin, I don't think). Once again we reach the same problem.

You see, no matter what you bring into the argument the problem remains the same. The conception of an all good, all knowing, all powerful God just does not fit with what we see in the world, surely?

And by the same token, how do we know the Devil exists? Just cause a lot of people say he does. a lot of people across lots of cultures used to think a lot of crazy Ideas, why should this one stick?

[Shadow00]

Mount, I'm telling you. It's all really simple. Peoples' leaders needed rules in order for the public to remain "good". The greatest plan anybody could come up with is God:
1. God is everything we can't/couldn't explain.
2. God is good, The Devil is bad. If you do what god says, you go to heaven. If not, you go to hell. That's how you enforce all the rules in order to keep order.
3. Life never ends, as there is God and The Devil, and you can live forever in heaven or hell.
All these are perfect for keeping a good order amongst people, as well as making people believe in the is WAY too easy, as they fulfill what they want, and heal their fears. (what happens when I die? Why does that happen?)
That's my view.

[Hitokiri]

Aha

The origins of religion(s)
Yes they are to explain the unexplainable, they are used by people in power to control the masses.

Now for the god creating devil in christianity.
That is all about balance. In the earliest civilisation, let's say pré-religion, it was all down to a balance in nature.
As we come from ape like creatures and are mammals, we had to be in balance with it.
Like all animals on this planet. We evolved into one of the biggest ever predator. Also, and this is the key for us thriving, we have a need for understanding things.

And the first gods are those that we found in nature, with the sun as one of the most important gods. And even with multiple gods, there was a balance between good and bad.

It's only after a few thousand more years that there's the idea of one god.
(and it's the jews that were first).
Now not only is that about religion, it also includes all laws.

(bit of politics: so instead of moving forward on the road of democracy, jews and later christianity and much later also by Islam, had the door open to mix politics and religion, leading in most cases into a feudal class system where the man at the top spoke with the word of god as was the case in ancient Egypt, babylon,... and the kings in medieval times, to the church today.)

But to get back on topic now: with all of that there is still the need to have the balance, to explain not only the good things, but also the bad things.
Now with multiple gods that's easy, you create a few more for all the bad things.
With one, and when you just said that there is only and really ONLY ONE, you can't.
So you got to create something that explains why there's evil in the world.

As for god and the devil, it also simplistically tells you what is good and what is not.
What you can and cannot do.
It is for that matter also very earthly man-made law.
(made up by someone higher up the ladder of the feudal system)

[tylerthetall]

read the book of Job in the Bible it answers why do bad things happen pretty well

[pudingeX]

Some are AC, some are pro-god...
You can't change them, for our ancestors made a grave mistake...
We just have to leave it that way...

[Lamb]

this is obviously under the assumption god exists.

In that case any higher power must have created us with free will.
That is if we are created by a higher power.

Anyone ever heard of the novel of flatland where the author has the mathematical theory of multiple dimensions?
Basically a dot can't see up, just sideways, so it can for example see the line of a circle.
That's because a dot exists in 2 dimensional space.

We humans exist in 3 dimensional space.
When we were to push on the dot in 2 dimensional space, it would not see it, nor know about it, it would indeed be perceived as an act of god for the element in 2 dimensional space.

Maybe we're just toys for creatures in a 4 dimensional space.
Like a little ant colony and a kid playing with us.

>.< people believe we are aliens if you ask why its because our brains have evolved in suck little time and we should have taken a longer time so people say aliens mutated us or that we had "intercoarse" to make smarter children which had the mutations and passed it on to everyone.