Australian cattle 'sledgehammered to death' in Vietnam

[The Divine Potato]

1. It is not more expensive to be vegetarian or vegan. If you want to be the kind of vegan who has to have the specialty cheeses and such then YES it will be overly expensive just like when celebrities buy food 'delicacies' that are worth a ridiculous amount. It is silly to say it is more expensive, you pay less for lentil and beans, vegetables and fruits per kilo than you do meat. You pay $21.00/kg for meat and you say that is cheaper?? If you actually put some thought and experimentation into food, your horizons can be vastly widened.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just really can't stand when people say 'it's too expensive'.

2. What you guys are discussing is called privilege and speciesism. A cow bred for human consumption and a 'pet' cow have the same worth, the same emotions, they are not different. I feel it is the same with any animals, including humans.

I feel that it would be much more kind and sustainable for us to live in cooperation than to live in fear from one another (non-human animals and humans alike).



*would appreciate not being mocked*

While I do agree with all your other points I will say that I do believe fear to be one of the way we maintain control over some animals, of course every animal can be won over with love and affection but that takes patience beyond measure with certain creatures.

I also disagree on vegetarianism being inexpensive, it is doable, very much so because all that's good and green for you requires much less money to buy than from a slaughtered animal, however it depends on circumstance. Fruit and veg are often sold by either big retailers or by small shops, the latter of which can be a bit more expensive than the former. Countries with less development have a diet with more fruit because it is much mire readily available than in countries like persay America or Britain. When it comes to the vegetarian diet a vegetarian also needs some dietary supplements in order to make up for the nutrients they do not gain by eating meat as well, however this need is much less apparent in the elderly.

The only thing is, the method Vietnam uses is horrifying, but effective, cost and practically.

[Shadowstar1922]

1. It is not more expensive to be vegetarian or vegan. If you want to be the kind of vegan who has to have the specialty cheeses and such then YES it will be overly expensive just like when celebrities buy food 'delicacies' that are worth a ridiculous amount. It is silly to say it is more expensive, you pay less for lentil and beans, vegetables and fruits per kilo than you do meat. You pay $21.00/kg for meat and you say that is cheaper?? If you actually put some thought and experimentation into food, your horizons can be vastly widened.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just really can't stand when people say 'it's too expensive'.

2. What you guys are discussing is called privilege and speciesism. A cow bred for human consumption and a 'pet' cow have the same worth, the same emotions, they are not different. I feel it is the same with any animals, including humans.

I feel that it would be much more kind and sustainable for us to live in cooperation than to live in fear from one another (non-human animals and humans alike).



*would appreciate not being mocked*

While I do agree with all your other points I will say that I do believe fear to be one of the way we maintain control over some animals, of course every animal can be won over with love and affection but that takes patience beyond measure with certain creatures.

I also disagree on vegetarianism being inexpensive, it is doable, very much so because all that's good and green for you requires much less money to buy than from a slaughtered animal, however it depends on circumstance. Fruit and veg are often sold by either big retailers or by small shops, the latter of which can be a bit more expensive than the former. Countries with less development have a diet with more fruit because it is much mire readily available than in countries like persay America or Britain. When it comes to the vegetarian diet a vegetarian also needs some dietary supplements in order to make up for the nutrients they do not gain by eating meat as well, however this need is much less apparent in the elderly.

The only thing is, the method Vietnam uses is horrifying, but effective, cost and practically.

In the States, or at least where I live, organic produce (even GMO produce) and vegetables, as well as tofu soy knock offs of of meat are more expensive than 1 dollar pizzas at convenient stores and 2 dollar frozen burgers and 3 dollar frozen chicken fingers.

With this being said, the average vegetarian meal I have found, at vegan stores and normal grocery stores, they can range from 6-15 dollars for one meal.

My father, who's income is about 50k a year, is not going to spend 18-45 bucks a day for 3 meals when he can just buy a frozen burger and frozen fries, which is probably around what, 4-6 dollars, depending on the bag of fries? and boom, that's your meal. microwaved hamburger and oven cooked fries. Maybe he'll buy a chicken patty, or frozen pizza, maybe mozzarella sticks!

As much as my father thinks vegetarian diets are good and healthy, we are not in the financial position,where 50k a year, which is suppose to compensate 1 individual, is compensating for 3 individuals (my brother and i)

So please, don't say a vegetarian diet is less expensive than a normal diet. You need to spend a lot more money to cover a balanced intake, as well as eating good food, because lets face it, not all vegan and vegetarian food is good.

Trust me, if a vegetarian diet was less expensive than a normal diet, many more people would be vegetarians.

[Foopzheart]

1. It is not more expensive to be vegetarian or vegan. If you want to be the kind of vegan who has to have the specialty cheeses and such then YES it will be overly expensive just like when celebrities buy food 'delicacies' that are worth a ridiculous amount. It is silly to say it is more expensive, you pay less for lentil and beans, vegetables and fruits per kilo than you do meat. You pay $21.00/kg for meat and you say that is cheaper?? If you actually put some thought and experimentation into food, your horizons can be vastly widened.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just really can't stand when people say 'it's too expensive'.

2. What you guys are discussing is called privilege and speciesism. A cow bred for human consumption and a 'pet' cow have the same worth, the same emotions, they are not different. I feel it is the same with any animals, including humans.

I feel that it would be much more kind and sustainable for us to live in cooperation than to live in fear from one another (non-human animals and humans alike).



*would appreciate not being mocked*

While I do agree with all your other points I will say that I do believe fear to be one of the way we maintain control over some animals, of course every animal can be won over with love and affection but that takes patience beyond measure with certain creatures.

I also disagree on vegetarianism being inexpensive, it is doable, very much so because all that's good and green for you requires much less money to buy than from a slaughtered animal, however it depends on circumstance. Fruit and veg are often sold by either big retailers or by small shops, the latter of which can be a bit more expensive than the former. Countries with less development have a diet with more fruit because it is much mire readily available than in countries like persay America or Britain. When it comes to the vegetarian diet a vegetarian also needs some dietary supplements in order to make up for the nutrients they do not gain by eating meat as well, however this need is much less apparent in the elderly.

The only thing is, the method Vietnam uses is horrifying, but effective, cost and practically.

In the States, or at least where I live, organic produce (even GMO produce) and vegetables, as well as tofu soy knock offs of of meat are more expensive than 1 dollar pizzas at convenient stores and 2 dollar frozen burgers and 3 dollar frozen chicken fingers.

With this being said, the average vegetarian meal I have found, at vegan stores and normal grocery stores, they can range from 6-15 dollars for one meal.

My father, who's income is about 50k a year, is not going to spend 18-45 bucks a day for 3 meals when he can just buy a frozen burger and frozen fries, which is probably around what, 4-6 dollars, depending on the bag of fries? and boom, that's your meal. microwaved hamburger and oven cooked fries. Maybe he'll buy a chicken patty, or frozen pizza, maybe mozzarella sticks!

As much as my father thinks vegetarian diets are good and healthy, we are not in the financial position,where 50k a year, which is suppose to compensate 1 individual, is compensating for 3 individuals (my brother and i)

So please, don't say a vegetarian diet is less expensive than a normal diet. You need to spend a lot more money to cover a balanced intake, as well as eating good food, because lets face it, not all vegan and vegetarian food is good.

Trust me, if a vegetarian diet was less expensive than a normal diet, many more people would be vegetarians.

This this this very much so. For a lot of people (especially in the US, where poverty is disgustingly high), they can barely afford to buy the expensive meat--they live off of fast food. There will be more vegetarians when companies like McDonalds stop taking advantage of the poverty to feed people stuff that is garbage for their health--A bargain vegetarian place? I'd be all for it.

[J the J]

I dont want to sound rude, but you guys have very little knowledge as to how vegetarian and vegan diets work. I've been a vegan for over 3 years and I have NEVER needed to take any supplements or get any B12 injections ect. We don't eat ONLY organic fruit and veg, we don't only eat fruit and veg, there are so many more foods out there besides fruit and veg for vegans...

I think if you guys did a little research for yourselves into veganism and the diet behind it you would come to realise that most vegan meals cost below $5 to make. As I said, if you want to be the kind of vegan who wants the expensive delicacies then yes you will have to pay more.

For example, last night, we had a curry for dinner, it consisted of lentils (they cost $2.50 for a 1kg bag.), potato ($4 for a 5kg bag), rice ($10 for 10kg), many spices which can be between $1 and $4 per bag depending on how much you buy at once and many other small ingredients which are just basics (garlic, water, ginger etc.). The papadams we had with the curry are $2.50 packet.

You wanna tell me about how expensive it is to be vegan? At my house, we barely earn enough money to even keep our house or pay the bills, and I am thankful we are vegan, because it saves a hell of a lot of money. When we feel like we want some cheese or cream etc. we have to lose out on something else.

It's about being resourceful and smart, not rich and well off.

[J the J]

Also, back to the original point of this post. Don't be blaming other cultures for their disgusting treatment of animals, when it happens in your own back yard.

“One time I took my knife – it’s sharp enough – and I sliced off the end of a hog’s nose, just like a piece of bologna. The hog went crazy for a few seconds. Then it just sat there looking kind of stupid. So I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts, pushing its nose all over the place. I still had a bunch of salt in my hand – I was wearing a rubber glove – and I stuck the salt right up the hog’s ass. The poor hog didn’t know whether to shit or go blind.” ~ Slaughterhouse Worker. (Slaughterhouse by Gail A. Eisnitz).

[Shadowstar1922]

Also, back to the original point of this post. Don't be blaming other cultures for their disgusting treatment of animals, when it happens in your own back yard.

“One time I took my knife – it’s sharp enough – and I sliced off the end of a hog’s nose, just like a piece of bologna. The hog went crazy for a few seconds. Then it just sat there looking kind of stupid. So I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts, pushing its nose all over the place. I still had a bunch of salt in my hand – I was wearing a rubber glove – and I stuck the salt right up the hog’s ass. The poor hog didn’t know whether to shit or go blind.” ~ Slaughterhouse Worker. (Slaughterhouse by Gail A. Eisnitz).

You cannot compare torture to a traditional method to ending an animal's life.

Slamming a bat, or a sledge hammer, or anything hard into a living organism's head in order to kill it, is not comparable to intentionally harming an animal just so you can put it in pain.

Also, thank you for describing a meal that came to 20$-24$ to make.

It's a pretty convincing meal. I'll tell my dad about it when he's buying 2$ frozen hamburgers for dinner.

[The Divine Potato]

Also, back to the original point of this post. Don't be blaming other cultures for their disgusting treatment of animals, when it happens in your own back yard.

“One time I took my knife – it’s sharp enough – and I sliced off the end of a hog’s nose, just like a piece of bologna. The hog went crazy for a few seconds. Then it just sat there looking kind of stupid. So I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts, pushing its nose all over the place. I still had a bunch of salt in my hand – I was wearing a rubber glove – and I stuck the salt right up the hog’s ass. The poor hog didn’t know whether to shit or go blind.” ~ Slaughterhouse Worker. (Slaughterhouse by Gail A. Eisnitz).

You cannot compare torture to a traditional method to ending an animal's life.

Slamming a bat, or a sledge hammer, or anything hard into a living organism's head in order to kill it, is not comparable to intentionally harming an animal just so you can put it in pain.

Also, thank you for describing a meal that came to 20$-24$ to make.

It's a pretty convincing meal. I'll tell my dad about it when he's buying 2$ frozen hamburgers for dinner.

Lets work some more numbers here, because numbers are good.

Let's take a family here for instance, I am going to use the size of two adults and two children.

Let's take shadow's figure of 50k a year and then say both the parents work, they are a productive household so the parents both work, and the kids go to school

Now let's take the figure of J's meal which shadow helpfully already calculated which. for the spices I will say the bag will be $2 just to go in the middle. The whole meal calculates up to exactly $21.

Lets say this family of four all eat this meal, three square meals a day, not factoring in portions or snacks or anything, the cost to feed all four for a day is $252 a day.

Now let us multiply this up into a week and we find that the cost to feed this family for a week is $1764 a week

Now let us expand up to a year, factoring out any Christmas dinners, restaurant breaks, they only eat this meal for a whole year. The cost comes to $91728.

I am not knowledgeable on how much a bill is or how much a child would want for their Christmas but just above $8000 is nowhere near enough to support a viable lifestyle

The vegan diet is expensive, unless it is actually a diet where you only eat once a day which is admittedly not the healthiest thing you can choose to do.

-Edit- Infact with these figures, how about we calculate how much money they have to spend on rent and other things in a year then, this is $8272, divide that by each month and you have $689.333333 You get the three picture.

Infact, I do realise a mistake I have made in the discluding of sizes of the bag, thinking they'd have to get a new one every time and I recognise that. But meh.

[The Divine Potato]

Also, back to the original point of this post. Don't be blaming other cultures for their disgusting treatment of animals, when it happens in your own back yard.

“One time I took my knife – it’s sharp enough – and I sliced off the end of a hog’s nose, just like a piece of bologna. The hog went crazy for a few seconds. Then it just sat there looking kind of stupid. So I took a handful of salt brine and ground it into his nose. Now that hog really went nuts, pushing its nose all over the place. I still had a bunch of salt in my hand – I was wearing a rubber glove – and I stuck the salt right up the hog’s ass. The poor hog didn’t know whether to shit or go blind.” ~ Slaughterhouse Worker. (Slaughterhouse by Gail A. Eisnitz).

Oh and also that book was published in 2006, the developed industry has most definitely changed since that most-likely overexaggurated work of literature meant to sell merely for it's shock-value.

[The Dice Man]

^
Just saying I'm vegetarian and almost all if not all my meals are alot cheaper then anyone else in my family (who are not) But I don't know overall because we're not forced to live on no food money and limit it. May just be them being fat. It isn't hard living on a cheap vegetarian or even vegan diet while poor but alot of places do infact charge more people for you've to find the right places to buy your food

[J the J]

Lentil Dahl Recipe (Curry)

1 cup (210g) red lentils, rinsed well
3cm fresh ginger, sliced
2 bay leaves
1 cinnamon stick
2 tablespoons (40g) butter
1 large onion, finely chopped
2 cloves garlic, crushed
2 teaspoons turmeric
1 teaspoon cumin
1/2 teaspoon garam marsala
1/2 teaspoon chilli flakes
2 tablespoons lemon juice
1/2-1 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon chopped coriander leaves
Naan bread or pappadums, to serve


I didn't realise that a curry took 5kg of potatoes, 10 kg of rice and 500g of every spice needed.... Please use some freaking common sense! It does not cost $21 every time you make a curry, so no, it doesnt cost $200+ per day, just like it doesn't cost you the whole freaking cow to buy a steak.

As I said, if you want to buy the fancy foods then it will cost more, but a basic veg diet does not.