Gay Marriage

[InSiGhTfUl]

Politics.

Right wing candidates and media feed on uninformed voters by bringing up things like Christian morals, even when they themselves don't necessarily abide by them.

I'm not saying the left wing candidates/media doesn't do the same, I'm just being specific to the situation.

[Netskyvirus2010]

oooh!!! zombiesss.....
I want your brainsssss......

anyhow... I know people whom are gay; but they are people and they should be accepted by who they are. If gays love each other; you dont need to be in their businesses they are not like hitler whom kills millions of jews, gays, etc....

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

I feel I am being persistently ignored here.

... let marry whoever wants to marry

Let us not!

I don't know why people should care what two consenting adults get up to in private.

I have no problem if two consenting adults get up to in PRIVATE. However I do not think it should not be given the chance to be PUBLIC. It is not the countries buissness to stalk the bedrooms of gays, it is the buisness of the countries of any actions in public. It's the Tree effect taking place.

And from the rest of the comments I have read they are no different from the first 2 pages. Any NEW information?

A

[Dr Frook]

here's something I picked up from about.com - it focuses on the issue of gender, as it applies to marriages, and how it is not so black and white :

"
Those who argue against gay marriage insist that the only marriages between men and women are legitimate, but what about those who are not quite male or female — at least not according to the definitions usually employed? Defining marriage in terms of sex begs the question of how we define the sexes — how we define who is a “man” and who is a “woman.”

This is no idle question — there are people who don’t match the traditional categories. In the universe of traditional Christianity (and those who can’t be bothered to extend their perspective beyond a dictionary), the categories of male and female appear distinct, but in reality there are indeterminate cases which don’t fit.

One of many reasons why this argument against same-sex marriage is ineffective is that it assumes that the clarity of the biological concepts translates into corresponding social concepts. Insisting that marriage can only be between a man and a woman causes problems because the nature of “man” and “woman” aren’t always as clear and defined as we tend to think that they are.

Sex Changes
Those who have undergone sex change operations have the genetic code of one sex, but the physical characteristics of the other. Whom should they be allowed to marry? On December 31, 2002, an Ohio court ruled that a heterosexual couple could not marry if one member is transsexual. Jacob Nash had been born female but changed his sex and obtained a revised birth certificate from his home state of Massachusetts. Despite this, Ohio courts refused to let him marry his partner, Erin Barr.

Judge Diane V. Grendell agreed that Ohio had to accept Nash’s revised birth certificate, but that wasn’t the same as accepting Nash as a male according to Ohio law. Grendell relied upon Webster’s New College Dictionary to define female as “the sex that produces ova or bears young” and male as “the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.” According to this Nash was defined as a female and the marriage was prohibited based upon the state’s ban of same-sex marriages.

If we accept Grendell’s reasoning, then we must conclude that Nash can only marry a male — even though, by all outward appearances, Nash is also male. How many, especially among religious conservatives, would treat a marriage between Nash and a man as a heterosexual union?

If a woman undergoes a sex change operation and acquires the physical characteristics of a man, would it be legal for this person to marry a man or a woman — and why? If a man undergoes a sex change operation and acquires the physical characteristics of woman, would it be legal for this person to marry a woman or a man — and why?

Hermaphrodites
What about those who have the condition known as “testicular feminization”? They have one X and one Y chromosome, making them genetically male. Because they are resistant to male hormones, though, they have some or all of the physical characteristics of a woman. When “complete,” the result is a person who looks completely female; when “incomplete,” the degree of sexual ambiguity can vary greatly.

Whom should such people be allowed to marry if marriage is defined as being between a “man and a woman”? Their chromosomes are those of a male, but their physical characteristics will make them look completely or partially female. Would it be a gay marriage for a person suffering from complete testicular feminization to marry a man? If not, when would it start to become a gay marriage for someone with incomplete testicular feminization?

This is a type of sorites paradox. Traditional sorites paradoxes involve asking how many grains of sand you have to remove from a pile before it stops being a “pile,” or how many pounds a fat person has to lose before they are no longer “fat.” These are paradoxes because they involve characteristics which are vague — it’s not clear where a pile or fatness begins and ends.

What is a Man? What is a Woman?
Most will assume that “male” and “female” are non-vague characteristics, and that is true much of the time; yet even biology can become vague and sex isn’t just a matter of what chromosomes you have. Socially, we don’t distinguish male from female based upon the genetic profile because we don’t have access to that. Instead, we take a look at their physical characteristics: do they look stereotypically female or male?

To what degree are we justified in using these markers for distinguishing male from female, though? Are they a reliable basis for social policy and for deciding who can marry whom? This won't be a problem for most couples, but a just social policy must be constructed so that the indeterminate cases are not treated unjustly. Deciding who can marry whom isn't always a simple matter of determining what sorts of internal organs a person has.
"

[InSiGhTfUl]

I feel I am being persistently ignored here.

... let marry whoever wants to marry

Let us not!

I don't know why people should care what two consenting adults get up to in private.

I have no problem if two consenting adults get up to in PRIVATE. However I do not think it should not be given the chance to be PUBLIC. It is not the countries buissness to stalk the bedrooms of gays, it is the buisness of the countries of any actions in public. It's the Tree effect taking place.

And from the rest of the comments I have read they are no different from the first 2 pages. Any NEW information?


A

Your first statement proves something. You feel as though you are being ignored, because your opinion hasn't swayed us, even though our opinions haven't swayed you either. You haven't really strayed away from your main argument either, which you implied we should do by saying, 'and NEW information?'. And who could forget you comparing gays to serial killers.
All that gives me an idea of just who you are, so let me take a shot. You only value your opinion, and the opinion of those likeminded around you. Because of you not wanting to accept anybody else's opinions, you are stuck in your ways. And because of both of those, you are threatened and scared of gays, even though you have no real reason to be.

[Lightning Orb]

I want to know how many of you actually know a gay person and talk to them frequently.

[InSiGhTfUl]

I want to know how many of you actually know a gay person and talk to them frequently.

Well, I can tell you that Wow doesn't

[Zados]

I want to know how many of you actually know a gay person and talk to them frequently.

two - my colleague at work and my boss

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

Those who argue against gay marriage insist that the only marriages between men and women are legitimate, but what about those who are not quite male or female — at least not according to the definitions usually employed?

This opinion can differ between certain people, I'd say this is a rare circumstance. It was literally not considered. So since there isn't much to go on with this one. I'd just try and stick to a Man and a Woman. I can completely understand other arguements for this.

the categories of male and female appear distinct, but in reality there are indeterminate cases which don’t fit.

There will always be cases that will never be able to fit with in the lines. The best thing we as a people can do is make a descision on " How to Handle It"

Your first statement proves something. You feel as though you are being ignored, because your opinion hasn't swayed us

Nothing much I can say here, reread what I have said? If what I said didn't work the first time, most likely you have solidified your opinion to a extent that you will not go onto a forum and change it. However if you reread something and look over the details you might be able to change your mind eventually. My one pepple will hopefully become a mountain.

[Wow_Give_Up_On_Life]

Part 2

All that gives me an idea of just who you are, so let me take a shot.

Just to make sure your not gay? Taking shots is really close to being a Serial Killer.

You only value your opinion, and the opinion of those likeminded around you.

I value any opinion that has a decent " valid" arguement that can atleast give the other side of the coin a good reason for even existing. I would have to be a retard to not talk to other people who disagree with me. How would I ever even have a chance at change, if I was unwilling to listen to other people? You don't post five words and expect everybody to agree with them. So then help me out, WHY do you disagree, WHAT is the problem? etc...etc....

Because of you not wanting to accept anybody else's opinions, you are stuck in your ways. And because of both of those, you are threatened and scared of gays, even though you have no real reason to be.

So I am never going to accept anybodies opinions? How will I ever get out of school? If you know your child is doing something stupid, what do you do? Allow him to do it and let him go through the trauma, or do you go and tell him why he shouldn't do that. I am the type of person who does the latter, what about you?